Animate Dead on Multiple Spell Lists

[HoboGod]

I think you are making things much more complicated than they really are. You never need to worry about Summon Monster X and Animate Dead stacking, because they are different effects (one summons a monster(s), the other allows you to control a specific amount of undead).

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean to say Summon Monster stacking with itself, not to question if it could stack with Animate Dead. That is, to cast Summon Monster I twice to summon two monsters at once. I'm using Summon Monster I to question how stacking works if stacking only occurs where stacking rules suggests. By understanding this, we may understand haw Animate Dead works.

Likewise, there are no issues if a different character casts Animate Dead. Stacking of these effects is based on "you", i.e the caster. You are never limited in the amount of HD of undead you can control because of another character casting the spell.

It doesn't say that by RAW, though! If it did, there'd be less hubbub about it. The rules make no blanket statement like "aspects of spells stack when and only when...." Because of this, a spell like Animate Dead is a headache because it works like other spells, each interpreted differently, some can stack, some don't stack, some only slightly stack.

 

[jefgorbach]

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean to say Summon Monster stacking with itself, not to question if it could stack with Animate Dead. That is, to cast Summon Monster I twice to summon two monsters at once. I'm using Summon Monster I to question how stacking works if stacking only occurs where stacking rules suggests. By understanding this, we may understand haw Animate Dead works.



It doesn't say that by RAW, though! If it did, there'd be less hubbub about it. The rules make no blanket statement like "aspects of spells stack when and only when...." Because of this, a spell like Animate Dead is a headache because it works like other spells, each interpreted differently, some can stack, some don't stack, some only slightly stack.

Animate Dead is limited to the corpses at hand so stacking is irrelevant.
A. Caster1 animates corpses as a (10+7)th level caster
B. Caster1 animates some as a 10th Arcane and more as a 7th level Divine.
C. Caster1 animates some as a 10th Arcane and Caster2 as a 7th Divine.
Regardless, a total of 68hd can be animated ... PROVIDED the graveyard / battle site has sufficient corpses. If it only has 20hd of corpses avialable, thats the most that can be animated.

Its akin to entering a room and finding two apples sitting on a table. It really doesnt matter whether you take one in each hand or you and a friend each take one because all the apples are taken. The fact you have a bag capable of holding a full dozen apples is irrelevant.


Summon Monster spells on the other hand are NOT dependent upon the creatures at hand, however stacking still doesn't apply because although you're limited to a single creature per casting of the current list, you can summon multiple creatures off lower-level lists implying an infinite number of such creatures from which to draw from.

 

[HoboGod]

Yeah, I tend to agree with you on available corpses. 68 HD to fill at 10th level simply wouldn't be realistic to fill with encounters alone, even if one went for all zombies and no skeletons. The only way to get remotely close to that number is to actively kill for them, either by laying waste to a small village or setting your sights on the destruction of animals in nearby forests. These tend to be seen as evil acts, but hey, you're probably in a evil campaign anyway if you're playing a necromancer.

However, not reaching the 68 HD cap is sorta the point. At 10th level, 40 HD represents 2 Zombie Ogres, 5 Skeleton Wolves, and 8 Zombie Humans. That's a typical necromancer you'd see in books, maybe even a respectable one, but is that the powerful necromancer you read about? It doesn't really matter that I'll never have my full army assembled, a necromancer so terrifying that he hasn't quite tapped the full of his power is what I WANT.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I always liked Fell Animate:

Living foes slain by your spell may rise as zombies.

Benefit: You can alter a spell that deals damage to foes. Any living creature that could normally be raised as a zombie and that does not possess more than double your Hit Dice, when slain outright by a fell animated spell, rises as a zombie under your control at the beginning of your next action. Even if you kill several creatures with a single fell animated spell, you can't create more Hit Dice of undead than twice your caster level. The standard rules for controlling undead (see animate dead, page 198 of the Player's Handbook) apply to newly created undead gained through this metamagic feat. A fell animated spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell's actual level.

You can't create more undead than you can control with a single spell...but if you keep using spells for killing, you keep adding to the extant number of undead.

Who cares if they're not under your control at the minute? Odds are good that they're closer to your foes than they are to you!