Animosity between traditional gamers and LARPers?

[Umbran]

Then again, quite a few people are plenty happy doing both or either, so make of that what you will.

What I make of it is a slight modification of your original statement - Larp and Tabletop games are different experiences. Not all experiences appeal to all people. So, some people like one, some like the other, some like both.

And, people who like only one might well tend to get annoyed with that which they don't like or don't understand. Humans are just like that.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Re: Some Truth to That...

I came to LARPs pretty late (past age 30) and have always concentrated on fighter-types because I like the physical challenge. I also really like actually doing it...you don't roll the dice for resolution...you actually have to pick the lock, disarm the trap, jump from rock to rock over the boiling lava, track down the bandit leader, scour the town to recover the pieces of the ancient artifact, etc.

Although I love tabletop games with a passion, the thrill of accomplishing a major quest or defeating an major enemy in the context of an ongoing LARP campaign is pretty awesome. The key is really finding one that you like with players and NPCs that you enjoy being around.

~ Old One

OK, I've been reading this thread since my first post and I have to say that Old One here and Tysr have me actually interested in the NERO thing they (and others) have mentioned. Do they have a website just for NERO (and what does it stand for, if anything?). I'd at least like to see what they offer here in London, Ontario. I remeber at a Con about 7 years ago (called CONtario - only lasted one year but it was VERY good) I won a T-Shirt with NERO printed on it and the picture of a knight. I had no idea what that was about until now.

 

[Old One]

Right Around the Corner...I think

OK, I've been reading this thread since my first post and I have to say that Old One here and Tysr have me actually interested in the NERO thing they (and others) have mentioned. Do they have a website just for NERO (and what does it stand for, if anything?). I'd at least like to see what they offer here in London, Ontario. I remeber at a Con about 7 years ago (called CONtario - only lasted one year but it was VERY good) I won a T-Shirt with NERO printed on it and the picture of a knight. I had no idea what that was about until now.

Holy Bovine,

There is a NERO Alliance Campaign in Toronto (I don't know how close that is to London. The link is Here.

There is also a NERO International Campaign in New Brunswick. The link is Here.

My strong recommendation is that you NPC an event before playing one as a PC. This allows you to get a feel for the campaign, the people, take a look "behind the scenes". In addition, events are usually free (or nearly so) for full-time NPCs.

Also, be aware that there are two competing NERO organizations (each with numerous chapters). Some of the founders went through a rather messy "divorce" in the late 90s, splitting it into 2 groups. The rules are fairly similar, but there are differences.

The NERO Alliance homepage is Here.

The NERO International homepage is Here.

My sense, from being around both groups is that the NERO Alliance folks are probably more friendly towards "newbies".

Let me know if you have any questions (NERO specific) and I will answer them as bes I can.

~ Old One

 

[Holy Bovine]

Thanks for the links Old One!

Lots of info there - the Toronto chapter is reasonalbly close to me (about 2 1/2 hours by car).

Thanks also for the advice about NPCing the first couple of events - I figured there would be some way for a newbie to be a 'semi' observer just to get a feel for the system and how it works.


The TO chapter has a bunch of events coming up it looks like - I'll let everyone know how I make out.

 

[Zerovoid]

Re: Yep, that is "the Crap"...

Zerovoid,

I don't know if you were trying to be funny, but I almost spit my soda all over the keyboard when I read your post. In most fantasy LARPs, combat resolution involves actual physical combat with "boffer" weapons (PVC or kite tubing covered with foam) and uses thrown spell packets (small cloth squares filled with birdseed); along with a verbal component that tells you opponent what type of attack you are making or spell you are throwing.

Most games require you to go through a safety course and sign a liability waiver before you can play. Legal targets (in most games) are everything but head, neck, groin and hands below the wrist (for both physical and spell attacks). Though it seems like there is a lot of potential for serious injury, they really tend to be few and far between, in my experience.

I did fence for several years in college and have a small amount of SCA experience, so I really enjoy the physical aspect of the game - field battles, one-on-one duels, etc. That said, there are many players that never lift a weapon or toss an offensive spell. They may play healers or gypsies or merchants and not engage in combat ever.

In addition, pure physical ability only takes you so far. There are many special skills in-game (essentially feats), that allow for critical attacks, delivery of poison or that can incapacitate via sneak attack. I am pretty good (actually very good) in combat (even though I turn 40 in a couple of weeks), but have gotten laid out plenty of times by spells, poison and tough critters.

Also, different systems have different armor rules. With some systems, armor provides additional points that must be "breached" before attacks can affect your body. In other systems, armor protects against 1 or 2 "hits" before the body location is completely incapacitated.

Although the combat can be rather intense at times...I would say that the SCA is much closer to "paintball with swords" that NERO or other such systems!

I have rambled far too long...

~ Old One

Well, the only LARP's I've really known about were MET Vampire LARPs, although I've heard lots of talks about these fantasy LARPs on the nets. Now, the Minds Eye Theater resolution system makes alot of sense to someone coming from table top. The basic premise is that its just like table top, and you have character with stats, and there is random resolution of of tasks according to your stats. I figured that most LARPs resolved combat like this, instead of with fake weapons.

Like someone else said, you really can't be anyone except yourself when people are running around hitting each other with boffer weapons. I mean, its still roleplaying, because you're playing a role... but when your character's physicaly abilities depend on something external to the game system, that seems pretty wierd to me.

I guess I would be worried about running into someone like the really big kids who would throw the dodge ball as hard as they can at your head in Junior High, who's intent wasn't really to get you out of the game, but to injure and cause pain to the other players. I mean, I suppose you could run into people like that in any physical activity, which is maybe why I just stick to biking for most of my physical exercise.

Safety courses or no, there's bound to be someone really huge guy who's just swinging to injure you, and to a computer nerd type rpg guy like me, that type of game just doesn't sound fun since I know I can't hold my own against that. I guess if I wasn't such a wimp, maybe this type of game would appeal to me. If you enjoy it though, more power to you.

 

[Old One]

They really are fun...

I guess I would be worried about running into someone like the really big kids who would throw the dodge ball as hard as they can at your head in Junior High, who's intent wasn't really to get you out of the game, but to injure and cause pain to the other players. I mean, I suppose you could run into people like that in any physical activity, which is maybe why I just stick to biking for most of my physical exercise.

Safety courses or no, there's bound to be someone really huge guy who's just swinging to injure you, and to a computer nerd type rpg guy like me, that type of game just doesn't sound fun since I know I can't hold my own against that. I guess if I wasn't such a wimp, maybe this type of game would appeal to me. If you enjoy it though, more power to you.

Zerovoid,

Anyone playing like that would be asked to leave...immediately. The people that run the NERO events I have attended (and remember, these are long-running campaigns) are not shy about asking people that play in an unsafe manner (or cheat) to leave and not return. The game is designed to be fun for everyone, regardless of physical ability...a bunch of deranged playground bullies, just there to beat on the hapless, would quickly get tossed.

Out of 75-100 players at a weekend event, I would say about 1/2 are mainly "roleplaying only" types. If you were really worried about it, you could ask for a special armband, which designates you as a non-comabatent. You can still be killed, but no one beats on you.

~ Old One

 

[dr jekyll]

Boffer Larps rule!

Tho, I understand in England and Europe, they use Latex foam weapons that look really sweet, but are much less soft than our US pvc pipe+foam versions. They're also much better at pulling their blows, I understand.

I haven't had the best of experience with the NERO games I've played, or their immediate derivatives, tho I have heard very good things about the original Wildlands and the newer Wildlands South (never got to play them *sniff*). In fact I have a friend who I think NPC's Wildlands South, and if you like that sort of thing (and I do), it's supposed to be very good. I generally prefer the smaller LARPS that host maybe up to 50 people, I feel the extra personal attention that one gets tends to be significant. And it seems to me that boffer LARP quality tends to degrade the further you get from the Eastern Seaboard. Here in the Northwest there is Legacies (http://whatsyourlegacy.com -hmm seems to be down right now), and it seems popular, but it's not my cup of tea.

Remember, no one swings at full strength or they're outta there, post haste. Tho it sometimes takes those SCA people a little while to settle down Granted, in high-stress, high-adrenaline situations, the hits tend to be harder, but the adrenaline also makes it easier to shrug off. Also, wear armor. It doesn't have to be SCA quality, and it will degrade the blow's force a lot.

And while it is true that to some degree you need to have a minimum of physical skills to engage in the combat aspect, you'll usually need to throw small bird-seed packets for magic (tho there are point-and-shoot varieties), even a pretty un-coordinated doofus like me can do pretty well in one-on-one combat. Sword and shield is your friend.

Also, in my experience LARPers seem to be *more* willing to risk a character's life than their tabletop counterparts. When you get 2 or 3 free resurrections, why not jump into the middle of a firefight? Tho after running at high speeds downhill thru the woods on a dark night one time, sometimes the adrenaline takes over a bit too much.

I've never seen a serious injury at a LARP, never even heard of one. The worst case I saw was due to a guy using a questionable weapon (if your LARP isn't serious about regular weapon safety checks, find a new LARP) using too much force and he knocked a friend off his feet.

Finally, as to antagonism between LARPers and tabletop gamers, I've never met a person who only played LARP. There are some things that can be difficult to do inside a LARP, and a good tabletop game is far less time and money intensive then a good Live Action Role Play weekend.

dr jekyll

 

[Tsyr]

Old One beat me to it... People like you describe are exceedingly rare in the first place, and never last more than a half a session or so.

Really, do you think people would keep comming back if they were getting the snot pounded out of them at every session by bullies? Well, I mean, maybe some people would, but...

My "local chapter" uses the IFGS rules, but we are not officialy an IFGS group, which means we can set our own rules... But if anything, we tend to be stricter as a result. The only major difference is, by consensus of the groups founding members, we _DO_ allow European-made latext weapons, if the player cares to import them, or knows how to make them himself.

Do they hurt more? A bit, yes, but it's not something I'm gonna loose teeth over or anything.

 

[Old One]

WLS Rules!

Boffer Larps rule!

*****

I haven't had the best of experience with the NERO games I've played, or their immediate derivatives, tho I have heard very good things about the original Wildlands and the newer Wildlands South (never got to play them *sniff*). In fact I have a friend who I think NPC's Wildlands South, and if you like that sort of thing (and I do), it's supposed to be very good. I generally prefer the smaller LARPS that host maybe up to 50 people, I feel the extra personal attention that one gets tends to be significant. And it seems to me that boffer LARP quality tends to degrade the further you get from the Eastern Seaboard. Here in the Northwest there is Legacies (http://whatsyourlegacy.com -hmm seems to be down right now), and it seems popular, but it's not my cup of tea.

*****

dr jekyll

dr jekyll,

Wildlands South (WLS) is outstanding. There are some major differences from the regular NERO events that, IMO, make it much more fun...

• All the experience you earn must be "in-game": In many other LARPs, you can buy experience in-between games, resulting in fairly quick PC advancement. With only in-game experience + 3-5 events per year, character advancement is fairly slow. In 2.5 seasons (11 events attended), my PC just made 4th level. This means that new players are not horrible outclassed by veterans and the Campaign Committee can really control the power level of the game. In many NERO chapters, the PCs that have been around the longest are gazillioneth level, making it tough for newcomers.
• Smaller player base: The average number of players at the events I have attended is around 75 (supported by ~ 45 NPCs). This is opposed to 150-250 average for the regular NERO events from the same chapter. With a more managable number of players and excellent NPCC ratio, your PC tends to get more individual attention.
• Great Campaign Committee: Sort of the DM "Hive Mind", the CC puts together all of the plots that drive the weekend. There are usually 5-6 major ongoing plots active (some related, some not) and another 5-6 smaller plot-lines that are introduced. It is not unusual to have a plot line revolve directly around your PC
• Both Modules and Free-Form: There are usually a number of modules (say, 4-6) that run over the course of the weekend, but much of the action is free-form and there is very little railroading.
• Ability to directly impact the campaign: Most of the PCs belong to a Clan or House. Each House has different attitudes and skill lists. We have built House Argellan (a trading house) into a campaign powerhouse! We typically field the largest number of players (from 8-15) of any house per event. We also provide most of the much needed weapon/armorsmithing skills in the campaign and have forged alliances with virtually every other house. As a result, almost nothing goes on in town that we are not aware of!
• Older player base: The slower advancement and story-intensive game play appeals to a slightly older and, IMO, more mature player base. Munchkinism is kept to a minimum and the role-playing is usually outstanding!

Alright, I have blathered on about WLS quite long enough...

As you can tell, I think very highly of it and if you ever get a chance to come and play, do it!

~ Old One

PS - Tell your buddy "Thanks" for NPCing...we love our NPCs!

 

[Umbran]

Re: Re: Yep, that is "the Crap"...

Safety courses or no, there's bound to be someone really huge guy who's just swinging to injure you, and to a computer nerd type rpg guy like me, that type of game just doesn't sound fun since I know I can't hold my own against that. I guess if I wasn't such a wimp, maybe this type of game would appeal to me. If you enjoy it though, more power to you.

Again, Old One or someone else who knows better, please correct me if I'm wrong...

Not only would such behavior be very likely to get you ejected from the game, but it also is discouraged by the game mechanic.

You must hit the target with the weapon - a solid enough touch so the target is sure to feel it. Hitting any harder than that doesn't actually help you do more damage, since the damage is determined by the spoken damagwe code. In fact, it hinders you. Ideally, you want to hit about as fast as you can call out the damage code. Hauling off and trying to use lots of muscle will drastically slow down your strikes.

Also, the weapons are a narrow PVC pipe wrapped in foam. They are padded, will flex, and aren't very heavy. Unless you hit in a particularly vulnerable place, it's actually pretty darned difficult to do real damage with the things. They can sting, and occasionally bruise, but that's about it.