Another awesome scenario made feasible by minions

[Irda Ranger]

Yes. Although, I think based on some of the conversation around zombie minions, that it seems clear that you can't even gaurantee the 'minion template' fits all 4e monsters equally.

Technically, it applies fine. The question is: is the XP right?

 

[hong]

I guess. It just seems like some people are excited that they "can do" something now when they could always do it (and quite easily). The only difference is it's a standard feature now rather than a really simple after-market add-on.

The minion rules are just a formalisation of the rules of thumb most DMs would use to run a big mob of mooks. This is, however, in keeping with the 4E philosophy.

3E philosophy: the rules are a framework for building the world. Where this conflicts with gaming needs, houserule or handwave.

4E philosophy: the rules are a framework for running the game. Where this conflicts with world building needs, houserule or handwave.

If you spend more time running a game than world building, this is a net gain.

 

[ruleslawyer]

I swear, I don't know why people think Minions are such a revolution in D&D gameplay. They're just CR 1/4 monsters with a scaled up AC and BAB to be 50/50 to-hit regardless of the PC's level.

Actually, that's not true. They have special abilities keyed off their minion status that are level-appropriate to PCs of the level they'll be facing, and plenty of other goodies.

Plus, it's Occam's razor. Far better rules design to take a CR 12 monster with interesting capabilities and simply knock its hp down than do scale up a CR 1/4 monster's AC, BAB, defenses, checks, etc. Plus CR 1/4 monsters in 3x generally don't have abilities that people playing 12th-level campaigns would find interesting, which is not the case with 12th-level minions.

 

[Colmarr]

Finally, the old sneak-into-the-castle-to-find-the-hidden-plans/treasure/prisoner etc. can actually work without either always ending in combat, because the NPC guards are too strong and you can't silence them in one blow, or always be boring because they're low-level mooks that pose no threat.

It just occurred to me that minions make it easily possible to play Splinter Cell or Assassin's Creed-style (or any other game with instant-kill mechanics) D&D games.

If the creature is unaware of you at the time you attack, it's a minion.

The moment the creature become aware of you, it's a standard monster.

I'm intrigued. Seems like a great way of playing a solo campaign for a stealthy type.

 

[Jhaelen]

The "Minion Template" is "Set HP to 1; Set AC high enough PC's need to roll a 10 or better to hit; Set BAB high enough it can hit the PC on a 10 or better." You can apply this Template to any monster in 3E.

Yes you can. Have you done it, though? Has anyone ever done it in 3E?!

The most brilliant inventions can look awfully obvious in hindsight - it doesn't make them less brilliant.

 

[TwoSix]

3E philosophy: the rules are a framework for building the world. Where this conflicts with gaming needs, houserule or handwave.

4E philosophy: the rules are a framework for running the game. Where this conflicts with world building needs, houserule or handwave.

I'd consider that sigworthy if I wasn't too lazy to make a sig.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

The minion rules are just a formalisation of the rules of thumb most DMs would use to run a big mob of mooks. This is, however, in keeping with the 4E philosophy.

3E philosophy: the rules are a framework for building the world. Where this conflicts with gaming needs, houserule or handwave.

4E philosophy: the rules are a framework for running the game. Where this conflicts with world building needs, houserule or handwave.

If you spend more time running a game than world building, this is a net gain.

Can you fly to Canada to talk to my media studies class?

 

[jedrious]

You can throw chimneys in 4E?

SPOON!!

fix'd it for ya

 

[RSKennan]

The minion rules are just a formalisation of the rules of thumb most DMs would use to run a big mob of mooks. This is, however, in keeping with the 4E philosophy.

My "Mook Rule" in 3.5 was to use level-appropriate bad guys and give mooks 1 hp per hd. The same went for npcs like Experts that needed high skills but didn't need to be too tough. It worked out all right.

3E philosophy: the rules are a framework for building the world. Where this conflicts with gaming needs, houserule or handwave.

4E philosophy: the rules are a framework for running the game. Where this conflicts with world building needs, houserule or handwave.

If you spend more time running a game than world building, this is a net gain.

I agree with you- as a general rule here. However, I'm all about world building, and it feels like the ability to handwave again will really make things more fun than it was in 3.x.

In other words- it seems like a net gain for a certain type of world builder, too.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The "Minion Template" is "Set HP to 1; Set AC high enough PC's need to roll a 10 or better to hit; Set BAB high enough it can hit the PC on a 10 or better." You can apply this Template to any monster in 3E.



I guess. It just seems like some people are excited that they "can do" something now when they could always do it (and quite easily). The only difference is it's a standard feature now rather than a really simple after-market add-on.

It is a "after-market add-on", and anyone that would have created it before 4E would probably have been dog-piled on by hundreds of angry 3E fans, including me. It is totally against the spirit of the 3E core rules.

Aside from the fact that there are serious practical limitations. Do you know your PCs attack bonus and ACs? Do you really want to look at their sheets for that? I don't like much doing it for Spot and Listen modifiers, though at least I know that I am comparing their values against a set DC or modifier that I didn't change based on what they have. Oh, and off course, what's the CR? Character Level -4? If I was still in 3E mind-set, *shudder* is what I'd do.