Another change for silence.

[Michael Morris]

After some playtesting, I came up with this. It is the least invasive change to the silence spell...

Silence
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Green 2, Brd 2, Clr 2

To prevent this spell from being used as an effective counterspell the following change is applied: The effect of this spell begins at the start of the next initiative count. This is an exception to the normal rule of spells begining immediately after they are completed. This allows spells being cast on the same initiative count to complete normally without being countered, even if you readied an action to cast it in reaction to another spellcaster's casting. Multiround spellcastings can still be countered with silence if they have a verbal component.

 

[Hashmalum]

I'm considering abolishing the silence spell entirely, or at least re-creating it from scratch. The unmodified spell is only 2nd level and can do all of the following:

(1) Prevent a spellcaster from casting spells with a verbal component. (This all by itself is worth a 2nd level spell IMO.)
(2) Effectively counterspell any spell with a verbal component with 100% efficiency.
(3) Completely silence the movement of an entire party with 100% efficiency, like Move Silently on steroids and the ability to prevent the sounds of battle from alerting nearby enemies to boot. Yes, the party's spellcasters can't cast verbal spells, but they have the capability of planning around this (use silent spells, spells without verbal components, and pre-cast buffing spells, etc. rather than using direct effect spells).
(4) Area negation of sonic attacks, with 100% efficiency against everything except the screaming weapon enhancement.
(5) Negate sound-based blindsight.
(6) General disruption of an enemy's communications--again, a sensible party can devise hand signals, plan tactics in advance to get around this, etc.

 

[MarauderX]

Yeah, pretty powerful spell. I put the basic spell up to 4th level and limited the power of the 2nd to maintain play balance.

Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Silences only 1 creature/item per spell.

Level: Brd 4, Clr 4
As the normal silence spell.

A save vs. will to negate won't really matter, as my clever PCs just based the 15' upon a rock then threw it in the general area of the spell caster. Of course having the ability to cast it upon a rock(or arrow, dagger, etc) is also up to the DM, but it worked too well for a string of run-ins with enemy spell casters, so no more of that.

Overall the silence spell remains underused compared to the other cleric spells at second level, and in general it takes the cleric player some time to grow accustomed to it. Once they do, however, it becomes very hard to make an enemy spell caster a threat to the party for all the reasons stated above. Even beyond that, the spell is worth it to enhance a party trying sneak away, and with other spells to work in conjunction (darkness), even a low level party can get away with murder.

The flip side is, how else would you stop a relentless spell caster from ripping your party to shreds while you deal with a dozen of his thugs? Perhaps the silence spell should go along with the Anti-Mage PrC...

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Are the eye rays of a beholder blocked by a darkness spell? The why would silence block a sonic attack?

A sonic attack in my opinion would still do damage. The sound waves are still there you just cannot hear them. Look at it this way. If I yell on one side of a silence spell am I heard on the opposite side? Of course, the silence merely dampened the sound in the effect so people inside could not hear.

So a sonic attack is still there you just cannot here it.

You want to be evil then allow the damage but dont tell the party what hit them. They cannot hear it so its suddenly a stealth attack.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Silence as a counterspell

A caster says he holds a silence spell and casts it when he sees another spellcaster casting a spell.

Do you allow him to cast the spell but not invoke it? Or do you say he starts casting the spell only when hold condition happens?

If it is the first then you should give the enemy spellcaster a Spellcraft check. If he makes it then he knows the caster is holding a silence spell and he won't bother you cast the spell. Since no spell is cast the caster wastes the silence spell at the end of the round.

If it is the second then his spell goes off an instant after the other spellcasters spell if both spells are single casting actions.

 

[Hashmalum]

Are the eye rays of a beholder blocked by a darkness spell? The why would silence block a sonic attack?

Darkness is the absence of light. Silence is the absence of sound. Darkness doesn't block the beholder's eye rays because they aren't light-based attacks. Your analogy isn't applicable.

A sonic attack in my opinion would still do damage. The sound waves are still there you just cannot hear them.

We're talking about silence, not some nonexistent deafness 15' radius. The description says that it stops sound, not prevents you from hearing it.

Look at it this way. If I yell on one side of a silence spell am I heard on the opposite side?

No, you aren't. And I quote: "... no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area." (emphasis added)

So a sonic attack is still there you just cannot here it.

Nope. It even specifically says that it blocks shout and horn of blasting--although it doesn't need to. Sound with the proper frequency and amplitude to cause damage is still sound, and therefore it can't enter the area of silence.

 

[Khorod]

I am not too troubled by this...

but suppose the silence doesn't outright prevent the passage of sound, but rather suppresses it? All people in the area add the caster's level to Move Silently, all sonic based attacks are subject to dispel magic the same way, vocal spells suffer a failure chance of 5% per level... and so on. I suppose rather than Silence this would be Dampen Sound.

 

[Destil]

After some playtesting, I came up with this. It is the least invasive change to the silence spell...

Silence
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Green 2, Brd 2, Clr 2

To prevent this spell from being used as an effective counterspell the following change is applied: The effect of this spell begins at the start of the next initiative count. This is an exception to the normal rule of spells begining immediately after they are completed. This allows spells being cast on the same initiative count to complete normally without being countered, even if you readied an action to cast it in reaction to another spellcaster's casting. Multiround spellcastings can still be countered with silence if they have a verbal component.

The rules already support this without adding any extra layers of complexity by allowing one full round cast times.

Personaly, I'm of the opinion that silence should allow a will saving throw by anyone within the initial area of effect as it's cast, and if anyone is sucessful the spell is negated, since it's directly affecting thoes people.

Neither adresses casting silence on a rock and readying an action to throw it at someone as they cast a spell, though.

 

[DreamChaser]

I always liked sound bubble better than silence. It creates a bubble through which sound can not pass in either direction. People within the bubble can hear everything within the bubble normally and same outside, but nothing passes through. This plus a spell that prevents a single creature from producing any sound and we'd be set.

I also have to say that anyone would be set on edge, whether consciously or not, by a zone of silence passing near them. The sound of water would become intermittant, sounds from the market would be dulled, animals would suddenly quiet, creeking would stop. True silence is totally unnatural and I would grant anyone "hearing" it and listen check to notice it. It would be different if it were a targeted 1 person spell, but this is an area.

YMMV
DC

 

[MarauderX]

Personaly, I'm of the opinion that silence should allow a will saving throw by anyone within the initial area of effect as it's cast, and if anyone is sucessful the spell is negated, since it's directly affecting thoes people.

I also think this is a good idea, for spell casters especially.

Do you allow him to cast the spell but not invoke it? Or do you say he starts casting the spell only when hold condition happens?

No way. It becomes even more powerful, as any clerics wait and to see a robed bad guy taking a FULL round to cast a spell, and then drop a silence on him to negate the spell. Either the PC casts it or they don't. If they accidently cast it on an enemy rogue, well, that's their fault. Same goes for most other spells unless they specify a 'duration until used', like magic missle.