Another Creature Catalog query for Dragon? (Pt 2)

[Aspect of BOZ]

Piranha Bats - Dragon 51
Swarm of Animals, CR 3-4
These bats look like their typical cousins, except for an extended jaw full of razor-sharp teeth. They have the blindsense and wounding ability of typical bat swarms. They flee from magical light and are particularly susceptible to slow and sleep spells.

(Note that almost all of this critter's abilities were essentially to create a swarm; assigning the swarm subtype makes them rather dull).

Poltergeist - Dragon #55
Outsider, CR 6
These spirits of chaotic gnomes from Limbo and Ysgard come to the Material Plane to spread chaos and pull jokes and tricks. They possess powerful illusion-related spell-like abilities, immunity to cold, mind-affecting spells and abilities, and resistance to fire and electricity. They appear as shadowy gnomes in dark cloaks, usually wielding spears, short swords, slings, or clubs.

(Note that they could also possibly be extraplanar fey).

could you post the original stats, or send them to me?

Your CRs are waaay low. I'd say that linquas are CR 7-8 at least, the gauterie might be around 5 at the lowest. and garmorms are definately over CR 11.

the problem is, those CRs are more than the HD for each of those (gautiere 4, linqua 2, and base garmorm 5). do they have something going on with them that rates them having CRs as high as you speculate?

 

[demiurge1138]

could you post the original stats, or send them to me?



the problem is, those CRs are more than the HD for each of those (gautiere 4, linqua 2, and base garmorm 5). do they have something going on with them that rates them having CRs as high as you speculate?

...a poor memory and a long day. The linqua and the gautiere are certainly good at low levels.

The garmorm, however, I'm willing to argue for it demonstrating the HD inflation from 2nd to 3rd Edition. A least garmorm (5 HD as written) is worth 8,000 xp. An osyluth, which also had 5 hit dice in the Planescape days (has 10 HD now), is worth only 7,000 xp. The garmorm has anywhere from 6 to 11 bite attacks, a death effect song, spellcasting and can attack creatures on any plane that touches the astral (we may want to borrow some mechanics from the dharaculus). It is my profound belief that the garmorm's HD should be bumped up to 10-12, and the CR adjusted accordingly.

Demiurge out.

 

[BOZ]

LOL. OK, the garmorm i will consider raising, the others i will keep as-is.

And, thanks for the stats, Shade.

As for the piranha bats, the description needs some work – they’re not terribly different from normal bat swarms in the MM as-is, so we need to make them a bit different. I agree, a good majority of the description just sets them up to be like the modern swarm subtype (the swarm subtype, of course, being pure genius).

One thing that the writeup gives them is a blood frenzy: “As the “pirahna” part of their name indicates, these creatures are particularly vicious and they become frenzied after blood is drawn. There is a 50% chance that all surviving bats in a swarm will converge on a target which has been rendered dead or immobile, forsaking all other possible opponents and proceeding to strip all the flesh from a “sitting duck” unless the swarm is opposed in this attempt. This 50% chance should be rolled for once every other round until the bats do converge on the stationary target or until the issue is resolved in some other fashion.” We could give them some kind of bonus, perhaps to any character who has suffered from their wounding attack?

Also, how would you interpret this part? That some of the bats might be actual vampires? That they might merely pass on the curse of vampirism? I’ll have to have a look at the 1E MM to see if they mention anything like that, or if this is some sort of special case. “For every 30 bats encountered, there is a 5% chance that one of them will be vampiric and (as per the procedure outlined above) a 25% chance that one of the bats which actually bites an opponent will be the vampiric one.”

Just to be clear, (how) would slow and sleep spells affect a swarm?


As for the DR55 Poltergiests, first of all, they need a name change. “Chaos Poltergeist” would get the job done, but is not too interesting. “Gnomish Poltergeist” is about the same. The “spirits of chaotic gnomes” part is troubling to me. Are they undead spirits? Are they nature-type spirits like fey? Are they a special type of gnomish petitioner?

Let me post the original pertinent information here for others to judge. It doesn’t sound like they’re incorporeal, nor are they said to have any traits of the undead (except, one could rule, immunity to cold and mind-affecting, but that’s stretching it). They’re certainly a tougher encounter than one might think. I’ll go with either outsider or fey.

NO. APPEARING: 1-4
ARMOR CLASS: -3
MOVE: 12"
HIT DICE: 6
TREASURE TYPE: C, Q x 5
DAMAGE/ATTACK: By weapon type
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: +2 or better weapon to hit
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 65%
INTELLlGENCE: High
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic neutral
SIZE: S (3'+ tall)

Poltergeists are the spirits of chaotic gnomes from Limbo and Gladsheim sent to the Prime Material Plane to spread the influence of chaos. They enjoy jokes and tricks, and their magical nature makes it difficult to do anything to stop them. And when they are provoked by someone trying to spoil their chaotic fun, they become as single-minded in their purpose as a berserker.
Poltergeists can use several spells of an illusionary nature. At will, they can perform the following feats of magic, at the 8th level of spell-use ability: Audible glamer, Hypnotism, Invisibility and Ventriloquism. They have infravision (60') and can teleport with no chance of error up to once per turn.
The creatures are immune to cold-based attacks and are unaffected by charm, hold and sleep spells and attack forms. A poltergeist only takes half damage from electrical and firebased attacks, which is reduced to one-fourth if it makes a successful save.
Poltergeists will be armed as follows: 15% with club &sling, 30% with club & spear, 40% with short sword, 15% with short sword &spear. There is a 15% chance for any poltergeist carrying a club or sword that the weapon is magical (+1).
The chaotic nature of poltergeists makes it difficult to describe them in terms of general characteristics. They tend to show hatred for the same creatures that gnomes hate (goblins, kobolds and orcs in particular), but will not hesitate to attack or beleaguer any character they encounter.
Poltergeists cannot be forever slain when encountered on the Prime Material plane; one whose body is killed will have its essence banished to Limbo or Gladsheim for a time and will then be able to reappear.

 

[Shemeska]

As for the DR55 Poltergiests, first of all, they need a name change. “Chaos Poltergeist” would get the job done, but is not too interesting. “Gnomish Poltergeist” is about the same. The “spirits of chaotic gnomes” part is troubling to me. Are they undead spirits? Are they nature-type spirits like fey? Are they a special type of gnomish petitioner?

Let me post the original pertinent information here for others to judge. It doesn’t sound like they’re incorporeal, nor are they said to have any traits of the undead (except, one could rule, immunity to cold and mind-affecting, but that’s stretching it). They’re certainly a tougher encounter than one might think. I’ll go with either outsider or fey.

Sounds like they're a special form of petitioner that's capable (and willing) of leaving their natives planes in order to spread their particular ethos. So outsiders.

 

[Shade]

As for the piranha bats, the description needs some work – they’re not terribly different from normal bat swarms in the MM as-is, so we need to make them a bit different. I agree, a good majority of the description just sets them up to be like the modern swarm subtype (the swarm subtype, of course, being pure genius).

Indeed. One of the best innovations of 3E (thanks again, Fiend Folio!).

One thing that the writeup gives them is a blood frenzy: “As the “pirahna” part of their name indicates, these creatures are particularly vicious and they become frenzied after blood is drawn. There is a 50% chance that all surviving bats in a swarm will converge on a target which has been rendered dead or immobile, forsaking all other possible opponents and proceeding to strip all the flesh from a “sitting duck” unless the swarm is opposed in this attempt. This 50% chance should be rolled for once every other round until the bats do converge on the stationary target or until the issue is resolved in some other fashion.” We could give them some kind of bonus, perhaps to any character who has suffered from their wounding attack?

The problem I had with this was twofold. One, the actual piranha swarm in Stormwrack has no such ability. Two, the attack seemed to strike me simply as "attempts to deliver a coup de grace to a downed opponent", which is postly pointless considering the amount of damage swarms can deal by just sitting there, and the fact that they can't score critical hits.

Also, how would you interpret this part? That some of the bats might be actual vampires? That they might merely pass on the curse of vampirism? I’ll have to have a look at the 1E MM to see if they mention anything like that, or if this is some sort of special case. “For every 30 bats encountered, there is a 5% chance that one of them will be vampiric and (as per the procedure outlined above) a 25% chance that one of the bats which actually bites an opponent will be the vampiric one.”

I didn't know if we'd want to open that can of worms.

The vampire template only applies to humanoids and monstrous humanoids. However, the monstrous vampire template from Ghostwalk can be applied to other types, including animals. Ironically, all the template does is to allow the vampire template to be applied to other creature types, and to change "augmented humanoid" to "augmented [creature type]". Since it predates the 3.5 MM, shame on the MM for not just simly making the vampire template apply to a variety of creature types. :\

Just to be clear, (how) would slow and sleep spells affect a swarm?

"A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind."

This makes it immune to slow, and affected normally by sleep.

As for the DR55 Poltergiests, first of all, they need a name change. “Chaos Poltergeist” would get the job done, but is not too interesting. “Gnomish Poltergeist” is about the same. The “spirits of chaotic gnomes” part is troubling to me. Are they undead spirits? Are they nature-type spirits like fey? Are they a special type of gnomish petitioner?

I think Shemeska's description was accurate. As for a name, since "geist" is Old German for "ghost", I looked up the German word for trick:

[n] a ludicrous or grotesque act done for fun and amusement.
auf Deutsch:Büberei

How about "Bubergeist"?

Alternatively, plugging "gnome" into the English to German translator...

[n] a legendary creature resembling a tiny old man; lives in the depths of the earth and guards buried treasure.
auf Deutsch:Wicht, Bursche, Zwerg, Gnom

That could give us "Burschegeist or Zwergeist". The latter sounds the most chaotic of the bunch.

 

[BOZ]

The problem I had with this was twofold. One, the actual piranha swarm in Stormwrack has no such ability. Two, the attack seemed to strike me simply as "attempts to deliver a coup de grace to a downed opponent", which is mostly pointless considering the amount of damage swarms can deal by just sitting there, and the fact that they can't score critical hits.

True, but “piranha bats” is just a name. as far as I can tell, they aren’t piranhas crossed with bats. And I agree that the attack as written is basically pointless, so something else needs to be substituted for it. I think a frenzy ability is a good idea. I was thinking Improved Critical at one point, but like you say they can’t score critical hits. What we can do is simply state that they go into a blood frenzy after dealing damage, and leave figuring out the specifics to when/if the critter is accepted.

Let’s face it; the fact is that if these things are just way too similar to normal bat swarms, no way are they getting printed. We’ve got to have at least one solid, distinguishing feature to make them interesting. If not a frenzy, then it’s got to be something else.

I didn't know if we'd want to open that can of worms.

Yeah, me neither. I just kind of threw that idea out there to see what would happen.

I think Shemeska's description was accurate. As for a name, since "geist" is Old German for "ghost", I looked up the German word for trick:

[n] a ludicrous or grotesque act done for fun and amusement.
auf Deutsch:Büberei

How about "Bubergeist"?

Alternatively, plugging "gnome" into the English to German translator...

[n] a legendary creature resembling a tiny old man; lives in the depths of the earth and guards buried treasure.
auf Deutsch:Wicht, Bursche, Zwerg, Gnom

That could give us "Burschegeist or Zwergeist". The latter sounds the most chaotic of the bunch.

I like Zwergeist the best; that’s perfect. we could also say that they are often confused with poltergeists, both because of the name and the things they do.

 

[Shade]

True, but “piranha bats” is just a name. as far as I can tell, they aren’t piranhas crossed with bats. And I agree that the attack as written is basically pointless, so something else needs to be substituted for it. I think a frenzy ability is a good idea. I was thinking Improved Critical at one point, but like you say they can’t score critical hits. What we can do is simply state that they go into a blood frenzy after dealing damage, and leave figuring out the specifics to when/if the critter is accepted.

Let’s face it; the fact is that if these things are just way too similar to normal bat swarms, no way are they getting printed. We’ve got to have at least one solid, distinguishing feature to make them interesting. If not a frenzy, then it’s got to be something else.

Well, there's always this...

Dessicate (Ex): Scarab beetles can reduce a victim to nothing in mere seconds. Any living opponent damage by a scarab beetle swarm must make a Fortitude save (DC 21) or take 1d6 points of Constitution damage. A creature reduced to 0 Constitution by the swarm is consumed completely, leaving behind items that are not organic.

We could also give them keen scent like sharks...except instead of blood in the water, it would be blood in the air.

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

perfect - that's what we'll do.

finished up 3 more:

Clockwork Swordsman
Construct, CR 5
The clockwork swordsman is an intelligent mechanical creation which usually serves as a bodyguard for the spellcaster who created it. A swordsman’s programming is much like that of a CG swashbuckler. Despite being a construct, a swordsman is sentient and charismatic, but with a very low Wisdom and don’t learn well from their mistakes. A clockwork swordsman is a near-perfect replica of a humanoid, with only slight clicks and whirs to betray its artificial nature.
Originally found in Red Steel Monstrous Compendium Online (1996)


Rohch
Aberrations, CR varies (wood 1-HD, killer 3-HD, swamp 4-HD, dark 8-HD)
The tiny rohch is the horrid result of magically crossbreeding wolves and giant beetles. Each has 4-8 legs, and two claws that extend from its back, and a carapace from which juts tufts of fur. They are voracious and attack anything in sight, using numbers to bring down larger prey. They have tremorsense and the sharp scent ability of a wolf. There are four types of rohch, each progressively more dangerous: wood rohch (the most common type, found in large packs), killer rohch (larger and more vicious than the wood rohch), swamp rohch (adapted to marshes and can hold their breath for a long time underwater), and the dark rohch (evil-aligned rohch, the largest and most horrid, can transmit disease by bite.
Originally found in Monstrous Compendium MC11 - Forgotten Realms Appendix II (1991)


Thrax
Monstrous Humanoid?, CR 7?
This NE psionic desert-dwellers exist by draining the water from its victims. This intelligent humanoid has ruddy skin, dark hair, pointed ears, and gaunt, angular yet muscular features. A thrax can psionically take on the form of a shadow, to take a victim by surprise, and decay a creature’s armor to get at the flesh beneath. It grapples its victim, using the suckers on its fingers to drain fluids. Anyone who survives this attack may be cursed to become a thrax himself.
Originally found in Monstrous Compendium MC12 - Dark Sun Appendix (1992)

 

[Mortis]

Clockwork Swordsman
but with a very low Wisdom and don’t learn well from their mistakes.

Does that mean that they're easy to 'wind up'?

Sorry, couldn't resist that.

Regards
Mortis

 

[BOZ]

OK folks, sorry about the delay. Now that we got our 20 conversions out of the way, it's time to get to our two “bonus” creatures.

The challenge is not only that a lot of people have stated how much they hate them, but that many people think they are outright stupid and useless (namely the biggest obstacle to overcome, Erik Mona), despite the outcome of our poll. I have an idea for the tirapheg (I’ll share it with you later, but the stwinger needs some TLC first if it’s going to have a hope of surviving).

So, you can see, it’s no small challenge! Here is the original blurb I wrote for them awhile back:

Stwinger
Fey, CR ½
These nauseatingly cute faeries like to swing from other creatures’ hair – which is more harmful than it sounds. After charming a creature into helplessness, this swinging deals nonlethal damage which can ultimately leave a creature unconscious. They are so incredibly cute that it requires a Will save to even attack one.
Originally found in Monstrous Compendium MC14 - Fiend Folio Appendix (1992)

Now be honest with yourself, if you were one of the people who voted for the stwinger. While it is a cute, silly idea, what could possibly make the average DM want to use one of these creatures?

That’s right – absolutely nothing.

However. This can change, with the right application of, well, something. Here is my challenge to you. Find some way to make people stand up and take notice, and say, hey now I never looked at them that way…

Maybe they have a unique element to their origin (maybe they’re made form pure chaos, or descendents of some powerful beings, or emissaries to some god or something). Maybe they have a dark and hidden secret. Maybe they have unique alliances. Maybe a combination of the above, or something else entirely different. They’re enigmatic enough already that finding something to work with them shouldn’t be all that difficult.

Now, of course, you may have to accept the fact that no amount of tweaking (other than changing the name and completely changing the creature into something else, thus defeating the purpose of conversion) will impress the Dragon staff, and they will ultimately reject it.

But might as well at least give it the old college try, dammit!