Another Dragon #300 thread - kill the tie-ins

[ColonelHardisson]

Welcome to the boards, Johnny Wilson!

Joshua Dyal's first paragraph in his post above sums up what I think also.

What I, personally would like to see in Dragon:

* Expanded page count. This would help, because then some departments could be returned that were dropped. I know this would entail many more ads, but you know what? Ads can be pretty helpful in keeping the public abreast of what is coming out, in addition to allowing more articles.

* More articles like the "Knights" material.

* Reviews - get some solid reviewers that are independent of WotC/Paizo. I love reviews - of books, games, films, you name it.

* Silicon Sorcery - hey, I like this stuff. I think it hasn't been used to its fullest potential.

* Minis - I don't use minis, but I enjoy reading articles about them. I don't know why. I just do.

* OGC - This is a MUST. Dragon has gone too long without offering open game content. I'd even like to see past 3e articles made OGC retroactively. Until Dragon has OGC, it isn't quite as useful a tool as it could be.

That's pretty much what I can think of at the moment. I think Dragon is doing a good job, overall, but I would like to see more articles, and a greater variety of articles in each issue.

 

[Dark Psion]

Maybe the problem with Dragon #300 is that it was too "Mature".
Like the first Birthday you didn't have balloons, decorations and clowns.

As to content and my two CPs;

1: I don't mind product tie-ins if it is a product I have. The Epic Level articles in #297 were pretty much useless till I had my epic level handbook to translate. If Dragon is going to do tie-ins, do it while I have that book open on my desk or when the book is also at the gaming store to temp me. Or tie it in with the Web enhancements, stuff that was cut from the book.

2: While #300 was disapointing, #299 was great! The articles on Knights and chivalry were excellent and there was not a PrC of a feat in sight. I like the way everything was presented here.

3: As to the Realms and Greyhawk, I will first say I play in the Realms and not in Greyhawk, I have found most of the recent Elminster articles prety useless and most of the Living Greyhawk very good (except for #296 & #299, NO MORE LISTS!). Even the Feats, Spells & PrCs in the silicon sorcery have been usefull (I missed the first few since I usually skip this article). So with all of these articles, it's more about individual content than the columns themselves.

4: As to #300 vs. #200, sorry an Elmore painting with a hologram looks expensive, gold ink does not. Extra pages is something I am willing to pay more for. Having to make an attack roll just to open my magazine is just anoying.

 

[Malakye]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but like I said before, I like the themed issues.

For example, I don't have the ELH and I'm not sure I'll be getting it for quite a while but I still liked the issue with all the Epic level material because when/if I do get the ELH, I'll know exactly which issue I need to look at to get more material for it.

I am especially bewildered by comments that things should be spread out over the year for things like dwarves, elves etc. I would much rather look at one issue to get it all than have to peruse thru 12 to get each little bit. That is just a waste of my time.

I love the comics, I'm dissapointed that they have been reduced but I'll get over it.

I don't care for the articles on mini's unless it is about painting them or something like that. I could care less about Chainmail, myself.

I don't really care to see reviews. Besides comics, I want the material to cover DnD as much as possible.

I'm not sure about the short stories. I have absolutely loved some of them, Garden of Souls by Richard Lee Byers in issue 283 being my favorite, but the rest are either ok or bad.

I play Forgotten Realms so the more FR stuff the better. I could care less about the Greyhawk stuff. Keep all the FR stuff you have now and if you could, give us more.

I think a balance between FR and GH is good over all though.

I love Mr. Gygax's Up on a Soapbox, never get rid of it.

I wouldn't mind less of the Scale Mail. You could maybe print a letter or two but I think most feedback/discussion could be had on the message boards and putting it in the mag is redundant and a waste of space(gaming material).

I don't really care for Silicon Sorcery, I have never found anything useful in it.

I like any articles about running DnD or playing DnD better. I think a short article each issue or a longer one every other issue would probably be enough.

I like the Sage advice but it may be better as something on the web. The problem I have with Sage Advice is that I can't always remember what issue to look at when I need something. If it was on the web, it would be easy for me to save it and organize it and then print it out if need be.

Most of all, I like STUFF: prestige classes, feats, items, spells, creatures, rules that aren't covered by core books such as vehicle combat, underwater combat etc, skills/new skill uses, character themes/combos by using multiclassing/feats/skills etc.

As long as Dragon stays focused on DnD material that I can use in my campaign (or future campaigns) I will be happy.

 

[Breakdaddy]

First of all, big Kudos to the Dragon Magazine staff for being so in tune with their audience. I often find material in Dragon that I will never use, but I have fun reading most of it anyway. Yeah, I must agree that issue #300 wasn't my favorite issue, but it wasn't that bad either. I think people get an inflated idea of what a "milestone" issue should and shouldn't be, and we tend to look upon the "shouldn't be" things in a very depreciatory manner. I think these guys should be applauded by their detractors as well as their supporters, if for no other reason than they care enough to come in here and actually read these posts! The last time I posted a commentary about Windows XP, I don't remember Bill Gates coming in and discussing my commentary.

 

[ThomasBJJ]

I have really enjoyed all the issues of Dragon since they switched to 3rd Edition. The last two were no exception.

A few suggestions:

I'm glad to see there was no fiction in the last issue. Dragon is (IMO) a "Dungeons & Dragons Game" magazine. Stay focused on the GAME. Fantasy fiction is EVERYWHERE. I don't need anymore of it taking up space in my GAME magazine. I have liked some of the fiction lately, but don't think Dragon is the place for it.

The sealed section in #300 was a minor inconvienience. If it cost alot more money to do that, it wasn't worth it.

If you are going to continue to publish Prestige Classes, please be VERY selective. There are simply WAY too many. Let's just see the best ones. The last few have been pretty good.

As much as I like reading the Scalemail section, 1 page is enough. There are many D20 publishers putting out sourcebooks with spells, Prestige classes, monsters, settings, and advice. But not one of them is publishing an anthology of readers letters... there's a reason for that.

 

[Squire James]

Well, if you go back to reviewing software again, please be aware that Sandy Peterson was the head level designer of Doom, and therefore you shouldn't be retaining him to write a review of Doom!

No, I'm not going to let you guys live that down. Even if that issue was probably made back when none of you were working for Dragon!

Besides, I liked the Lessers better...

 

[Dinkeldog]

I'm generally pretty happy with what's in Dragon. I would recommend keeping a basic theme. There have been a number of times that my group and I were able to find things quickly because we could say, "Go to last spring's issue on dragons."

If you want to include fiction, I'm fine with that. I enjoy our Story Hours on these boards as well. Maybe a suggestion would be to stat up main characters from the fiction for us. Might make it more useful.

I will echo the request for things like underwater combat, ways to deal with aerial combat, and the like that aren't codified so well in the main rules.

 

[warcabbit]

Well, I've been reading Dragon since the one with Deck of Many Things... 142? 148? Something like that. I think I've got a decent perspective on the historical issues.

First, I _do_ miss Dragonmirth. I love the comics now, especially What's New, but I wouldn't mind a half-page of one-panel shorts. I mean, I've got to have something to stick on my door now Far Side's gone.

Secondly, I agree on more OGC. Please. Anything. Most articles have this great stuff... and no-one will ever see it again in a product. In fact, most of this great stuff, because it shows up in Dragon can _never_ be used in a product, thanks to plagarism issues. OGC it, and let it become part of game worlds.

Thirdly, archives. Year-at-a-time, perhaps, sold on CD-ROM? I know I'd buy them, specially if they were searchable PDF like the old Dragon Archive. Not too expensive, orderable off the website? Better than old issues, because, well, you won't run out. As you have of the one issue I'm missing from Third.

Fourthly, D20/Other Gaming Content. It may _have_ been true, in the past, that other games shouldn't have been covered in Dragon, thanks to the house organ thing. But it's much less true today, now that everything is cross-compatable. Perhaps a regular, one-article an issue, from a 'Guest Publisher'. Have Mongoose submit a Judge Dredd thing one month, and so on. Could even work it as a Special Advertising Section. Heck, go for broke and compare and contrast the various naval systems around, or what have you.

Finally. Dragon, excepting the April issue, is the best it has ever been. (I'm sorry, it just wasn't funny. Humorous, perhaps, but where's the funny? C'mon, remember the one with the fat Valkyrie, or the Beholder on the cover? Those were funny. The dangerous magic spells, the useless items... To this day, my players still use Audible Curse. And I _did_ get someone to cast Remove Hands)

Er. Right. Best its ever been. Strong articles, interesting topics. Love the historical RL cities coverage, (Try doing it on small towns. There's High Weirdness around.) How about some crunch_ing_ bits? Articles on how to quickly rule-of-thumb generate opponents, or dungeons, for Beer and Pretzel quickgaming. Articles on tactical situations. If a kobold is in the dark, more than sixty feet away, can it fire and be hidden? (This is not a rules question, it's about how to run things) Heck, intro to wargaming, basic tactics for an adventuring party... (Don't split up. Keep the mage in the middle back.)

In short, keep doing what you're doing, but don't just keep rolling out the same way to do it. Class, spell, monster, item. Mix it up a bit. Talk about how to use a _type_ of spell. Heck, Web alone has fifty different uses. A wall, a trap, a flanking buddy. A bonfire, a way to jump from tall places without being hurt, an umbrella, a shield...

 

[CrazyMage]

Re: No comments on the tie-ins....

...but what happened to the spell template transparency that was mentioned in # 299? It was supposed to be in # 300...did mine just get abducted by the postman, or was it never there?

I thought somebody from Paizo (Johnny Wilson? But he's post-count 1 in this thread, though I thought for sure he's posted here before...) said they got a prototype and it didn't meet their expectations, so they're taking time to do it right and it will appear in a future issue.

 

[RobNJ]

Frankly, we’re a little confused about all of this Dragon #300 bashing.

Lemme break it down for you, Mr. Wilson. There are people on these boards who hate anything and everything done by "The Powers That Be". No matter who is deemed to be in a power position, they will be hated for being in that position. There need be no substantive complaint, because people will invent statistics that state that theirs is a majority opinion.

I get so sick and tired of reading threads and posts by people who gather together to talk about a game/TV show/comic book/what have you and then spend all of their time complaining about how it sucks, or how it used to be good.

The fact is that I don't find everything in your magazine useful, nor is everything to my taste, but I'm enough of an adult to realize that the publishers of a magazine or a book can't put on their telepathy hats, determine exactly what I want, then give it to me. And even if you could do that, most of the people who put up these whiney rant threads wouldn't be satisified.

You do good product. Ignore these people.

(as a side note, the fact that you can produce reasonably well-balanced rulessets each month is really impressive)