Another Immortals Handbook thread

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Hi Alzrius mate!

I wanted to bring up a few things about that new article.

Fire away.

First, a link on the front of the website would be great. I had to go hunting through the various sections to find it.

There is a link on the front of the website (the gospel/news page).

***

17th September 2005 Absolution (Part One: Immunities)

Added the first rant, here.

***

The 'here' is the link - its in a different colour.

There is also a second link to it on the sermon/rant page.

However, the fact that wasn't aobvious tells me maybe I should have labelled the links better perhaps.

Also, a few things on the heat table seem somewhat...off to me. I don't think lava should be hotter than the Plane of Fire.

Immersion in Lava deals 20d6 damage.

Immersion in the Plane of Fire deals 5d6 (3d10) damage.

Therefore I surmised one was hotter than the other.

And it seems suspect that a lightning bolt and the sun's corona are hotter than the sun's surface...of course, those last two may just be that I need to look up the science more.

I was surprised by that as well...but its a fact.

I also don't think that the absolute immunities are quite the dire threat to epic/immortal gaming SKR (and you) seem to be saying they are, or the problem would have come up a while ago.

I don't think the problem is dire for core D&D. It is more troublesome for epic gaming and as far as I can see its almost lethal for immortal gaming - its leaving DMs with virtually no 'outs'.

Epic/immortal gaming can get along fine (I think) while still having absolutes there...

Could probably survive without having a decent Challenge Rating/Encounter Level system too, but are you saying we shouldn't try to improve the game if we have it in our power?

especially since characters will like to have some weaknesses that they don't have to worry about anymore.

Complacency is unlikely to improve anyones gaming experience.

It worked fine for undead creatures, after all.

OD&D works fine, but most people play D&D 3.5.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

I trust we can look forward to an article or rant that says that Wounding is overpowered, then? It may be better rated as a +3, but it's certainly stronger than your Icy Burst.

DOH!

Icy Burst should deal the damage on a hit, not a crit. My mistake.

Also I've probably reverese engineered the others from Icy Burst too.

I'm leaning towards:

1. On crit = 25%
2. On hit (not multiplied by crit) = 50%
3. On hit (multiplied by crit) = 100%

So if something was +4 for option 3 it would be +1 for option 1 etc. But I really need to go over those figures again.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Given that people survive being struck by lightning bolts but not 2 tons of TNT theres a definite discrepancy somewhere.

People are mostly struck by small cloud-to-ground bolts -- that's why they generally survive.

In any case I don't understand your figures. You assign a fireball a temp of 2000 degrees -- why that temperature? You say it deals 32d6/round based on your formula, so why does a flash 1/1986th of that duration deal more than 1/7th the damage?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Reality check numero dos, this time from the wikipedia: being directly struck by lighting can often be not as bad as being near a ground strike.

Absolutely.

My physics teacher in high school survived at least one lightning strike (I only heard the story from him about one). He was far away enough that he mostly had to deal with the explosion - I think it's cause by all ionized air recombining. He got thrown some distance away from where the strike hit.

Interesting, and thanks for the article. I can already see a treatment of Lightning similar to the Cold article brewing in my head.

Okay - I am off to bed now, so any more posts from this point on won't be answered by me until tomorrow - although feel free to talk amongst yourselves of course.

 

[Alzrius]

There is a link on the front of the website (the gospel/news page).

***

17th September 2005 Absolution (Part One: Immunities)

Added the first rant, here.

***

The 'here' is the link - its in a different colour.

There is also a second link to it on the sermon/rant page.

However, the fact that wasn't aobvious tells me maybe I should have labelled the links better perhaps.

Hmm...the last update I see is on September 5, 2005.

Immersion in Lava deals 20d6 damage.

Immersion in the Plane of Fire deals 5d6 (3d10) damage.

Therefore I surmised one was hotter than the other.

That seems to be a concession that planar PCs are more likely to somehow end up on the Plane of Fire than immersed in lava. If I had to recommend a change there, I'd say that future parts of the IH should mention, when discussing the planes, that the Plane of Fire does more damage than that.

I don't think the problem is dire for core D&D. It is more troublesome for epic gaming and as far as I can see its almost lethal for immortal gaming - its leaving DMs with virtually no 'outs'.

I disagree, I see this as more a matter of opinion than any major flaw in the game that can be conclusively said to ruin the experience. I admit I haven't any data or anything to back that up, save to say that prior to SKR's article, no one seemed to think this.

Could probably survive without having a decent Challenge Rating/Encounter Level system too, but are you saying we shouldn't try to improve the game if we have it in our power?

Assuming that this is an improvement. I see the gaining of power as being a process by which you shore up your defenses, which means (IMHO) that at some points you're going to gain immunities to something. Would you say that having a lich PC ruins the game because said PC is now immune to a slew of effects?

Complacency is unlikely to improve anyones gaming experience.

Neither will needless changes. It's not complacency to say that what isn't broken doesn't need to be fixed.

OD&D works fine, but most people play D&D 3.5.

I have no idea what this means. I was trying to say that Undead-type creatures have a large number of immunities, and no one is saying they're less fun at epic levels.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

People are mostly struck by small cloud-to-ground bolts -- that's why they generally survive.

According to my Low Physical Factor calculations 2 Tons of TNT would only deal approx. 20d6 damage.

In any case I don't understand your figures. You assign a fireball a temp of 2000 degrees -- why that temperature? You say it deals 32d6/round based on your formula, so why does a flash 1/1986th of that duration deal more than 1/7th the damage?

I think the problem was in me trying to reverse engineer the temperature to get the 5d6 base damage. I should probably have divided the fraction of the round by the suare of its square and then divided the damage by that.

Also I should point out that I chose the upper limit of Lightning, the range should be 20,000-30,000.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius mate!

Hmm...the last update I see is on September 5, 2005.

Try refreshing the page.

That seems to be a concession that planar PCs are more likely to somehow end up on the Plane of Fire than immersed in lava. If I had to recommend a change there, I'd say that future parts of the IH should mention, when discussing the planes, that the Plane of Fire does more damage than that.

Why? The damage for the plane of fire was listed in Manual of the Planes. The damage for Lava is detailed in the Dungeon Masters Guide.

I disagree, I see this as more a matter of opinion than any major flaw in the game that can be conclusively said to ruin the experience.

If deity characters are immune to everything I list on the website as standard then it drammatically reduces the options a DM can bring to bear upon such immortal characters.

I admit I haven't any data or anything to back that up, save to say that prior to SKR's article, no one seemed to think this.

They say ignorance is bliss.

Assuming that this is an improvement.

It makes sense - to me thats an improvement.

I see the gaining of power as being a process by which you shore up your defenses, which means (IMHO) that at some points you're going to gain immunities to something.

So are you saying the god of fire shouldn't be able to burn a fire giant? Or that a fire giant should be able to survive at the suns core?

Would you say that having a lich PC ruins the game because said PC is now immune to a slew of effects?

You use the word ruin like its an on/off switch...as if it were an absolute you could say.

I certainly don't think the liches immunities are a positive aspect, and they are certainly illogical as well, but it would be melodrammatic for me to say they would ruin someones game.

But if your PCs are all immortals with the immunities I list on the website then yes I would say that will ultimately ruin your game.

Neither will needless changes. It's not complacency to say that what isn't broken doesn't need to be fixed.

The Model T Ford automobile worked but few people drive them today. It wasn't 'broken' but the cars today are 'better', thats progress.

I have no idea what this means. I was trying to say that Undead-type creatures have a large number of immunities, and no one is saying they're less fun at epic levels.

It means don't be afraid of evolution.

 

[Verequus]

Examples and spell names are italicized, as far as I can tell nothing else.

You have a table, where you sort things into static or dynamic. The ability scores mentioning is italicized there, but the asterisk leads to an uncompleted text.

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

Couple of questions:

1. Have you developed a "Planck-Ball" or "Big Bang" spell yet?

2. If so, what level would one need to be to cast it? Time Lord? High Lord?

Thanks dude.

 

[Kerrick]

I like the idea that a dragons breath weapon 'could' freeze someone.

Yeah...I'm kinda wishy-washy on that idea. On the one hand, I agree that it would be cool, but on the other hand, I'm wondering about the game balance. White dragons are, after all, one of the weaker species - giving them the ability to freeze someone makes them a lot more powerful, especially since other dragons' breath weapons (besides shadow) don't have special powers.

I was addressing the mental effects of hypothermia, as such surely wisdom is appropriate.

There are mental effects? I was using a Con check, because the most visibile effects are physical - the metabolism slows way down, systems start shutting down, and eventually, if not curbed, the body stops completely as it loses the energy to keep going.

I would say Crystallisation spells death for any being without regeneration most likely.

Sounds about right. What about creatures with the Cold subtype (assuming you could actually do that)? lol

Exactly its 'freezing' not paralysis, but I needed to give people an idea of what I meant by freezing.

Oh, ok. My bad.

According to my studies of frostbite, you should never treat it with anything more than lukewarm water, never 'hot' water. So my guess is anything over the safe temperature will cause 50% extra damage to those with hypothermia, frostbite, freezing.

I know that - that's why I specifically didn't mention water, I said heat. The best way to treat frostbite is skin-to-skin contact with a warm body, preferably insulated in blankets or something to keep the heat in. But, I wasn't sure about adding the "severe heat" thing, thinking along the same lines you were - more than the safe temp deals extra damage. So yeah, I'll agree with you on that.

What about, the target is crystallised if a single attack drops them to 0 Strength or Dexterity. After all, continual cold won't crystallise someone, only truly severe cold would do that.

The flash-freeze effect? I like that.

I think you could treat the cold damaged victim as if having the cold subtype for the purposes of fire/heat damaging them.

I mentioned that he should be treated as having the Vulnerability to Fire ability, which is essentially the same thing.

I'm curious, does the Frostburn supplement have nothing like this in it? (I don't own that supplement myself)

I don't either. I'm sure it has a couple similar ones; I think there's a spell called frostbite in there, but I'm not sure what it does (cold damage or something...).