D&D 5E Another monk thread! Fixing the Way of the 4 Elements

[Asisreo]

So you WOULD pick a ranger subclass that just gives you druidcraft and four Druid spells from a very limit list?

Options are power. Getting blight as your fifteenth level class power is balanced then, right?

Thinking back on your question, I actually think a ranger subclass with only a limited list of selectable spells may not only be balanced, but OP depending on the spell chosen. In fact, I'll actually play along with the "no 5th-level spell" thing going on.

Of course, you arbitrarily chose a specific Druid cantrip and 4 druid spells either because the spell list of a Ranger is close to a druid or that the elemonk's spells sometimes align with a druid's, but there's nothing saying they must. These points would contradict themselves anyways, since if it was because it was the druid spell list is similar to a ranger's, a monk has no spell list to derive from. If it was because the elemonk's spell list resemble a druid's, they also resemble a wizard's or a sorcerer's.

Anyways, I've made a list of spells which could potentially make this theoretical Ranger subclass almost overpowered. I'm structuring it similarly to the monk's disciplines.

Supernatural skill: Can cast Guidance at-will

Mark of the wild: cast Hex using a Ranger spellslot

Curse of the Forest: cast Bane using a Ranger spellslot

Quick Aid: Cast Healing Word as a Bonus Action using a Ranger spellslot

Mystical Force: as an action, force a hostile creature to make a dexterity saving throw using a ranger spellslot. If they fail, they take 4d6 piercing damage and are paralyzed until the end of their next turn. If they succeed, they take half damage and are not paralyzed. You can upcast this for an additional 1d6 damage.

Nature Raid: As an action, force a hostile creature to make a constitution saving throw. If they fail, they are paralyzed until the end of their next turn. If they succeed, they take half damage and are not paralyzed. You can upcast this for an additional 1d6 damage.

Imbued strikes: your arrows have been imbued with the power of nature. When you take the attack action, you can use a ranger spellslot to make your attack quicker and more magical. your attacks are magical for this turn and you can make an extra attack as a bonus action this turn or 2 extra attacks if you are duel-wielding.

Call upon nature: as an action, while spending a ranger spellslot, you can move either the earth or plants as you see fit. Choose an area of earth no larger than 30ft in any dimension and move it so that in any way except it cannot harm or trap a creature. If you choose a plant, you can move it within 60 feet of its original position. The plant must be Huge or smaller.

Aspect of the animal (6th level): you can cast enhance ability.

Claim mount(6th level): you can cast Find Steed

Nature's beckon(11th level): you can cast revivify

Cheetah's Fury(11th): you can cast Haste

Return to the Natural(11th): you can cast dispel magic

Bestial Roar(11th): You can cast fear

Beast Form(15th): polymorph

Conquer Nature (15th): Dominate Beast

All else equal to how the Monk operates, I'd say this is a decent list of features to choose from.

 

[Asisreo]

Try reading. I said 15th level.
And blight is a 4th level spell. Getting it at 15th level works just fine.

You may have not read. I know you've had it as a 4th level spell because the Ranger subclass features only allow up to 15th level. I was hoping you'd understand the flaw. That being that all other classes would get the full breadth of their spellcasting ability, including the Xanathar Rangers.

You choosing not to do so is specifically trying to nerf their spellcasting ability before you even tried adding other spells and options on top of it. It's dishonest if intentional.

Better than monks who get the ability to cast a level 4 spell at level 17. Which is what the 4 elements monk gets. When the ranger gets their level 5 spells the monk can cast wall of fire. Their new power is one that the wizard has been able to do for ten levels

The wizard doesn't exist. Nobody made the wizard in this example because nobody wanted to play wizard. Or maybe they did, but the wizard didn't want to pick wall of fire. Or maybe they did, so the elemonk either doubled down or chose a different spell to take. It doesn't matter what another class's options are. What matters is the options given to the class we're focusing on. Outside of elemonk, there is absolutely no way for a pure monk to get wall of fire.

Sure ya can. Just have said spellcasting ranger get to pick from a small list of druid spells. Four spells, each of level one to four. Replace when you level up. Effortless.

It was effortless because you refused to put effort into it. I put effort into mine, and it honestly wasn't even alot of effort. Basically just the bare minimum.

It supports that model as well as the monk.
Subclass levels at 3, 7, 11 and 15 instead of 3, 6, 11 and 17. Both are effectively half casters.

It would be EXACTLY THE SAME to present a ranger subclass that gave it new spells,

Level 3 ranger. Gain druidcraft and pick one of faerie fire, entangle, purify food and drink or thunderwave
Level 7 ranger, pick one from the above or enhance ability, flaming sphere, hold person or moonbeam
Level 11 ranger, pick one from the above or from call lightning, dispel magic, meld into stone or sleet storm
Level 15 ranger, pick one from the above or blight, control water, hallucinatory terrain or wall of fire

Bam. Magic ranger done. Add 2-3 paragraphs of flavours and that's the subclass. Which I'm told will be balanced because it gives more options AND you claim it sound like fun. I expect a report of you playing one shortly. Feel free to write it up and add it on the GM's guild.

Except your forgot unique abilities that no spellcaster or external force could accomplish exactly the same way like the water whip or flame fists.

How many 4 element monks have you played?
How many monks?

I've played 5 monks over the course of 5e. My first one was an open hand monk from levels 1-6.

Out of those 5, 3 were elemonks. One from levels 1-7, a second one in a one-shot at level 12, and the third one in a high level campaign from 15-20.

None of them were bad, or hard to play, or even remotely disappointing.

 

[Guy Icognito]

This conversation isn't worth the aggravation...

 

[Xeviat]

The Monk is a half caster, so any combat spells that cost an action are sort of waisted if they weren't designed for a half caster to have. Maybe if the new Monk ability of "whenever you spend a ki point with an action, you can make one unarmed attack" will balance it. But a 5th level spell at level 19 for 6 or 7 ki isn't that big of a deal when your base attack routine and 1 ki gets you four attacks for something like (1d10+8)x4.

This is why the paladin is built around smite, and why the ranger has Hunter's mark and the strike spells.

Still, Sun Soul Monk is more satisfying because they get an at-will magic attack that scales, an at-will fireball, and a bonus action for dumping ki into. These are fun.

 

[cbwjm]

I was going to play a tortle 4 elements monk (It was Oogway) in my friends game but another player had already rolled one up and I thought I may as well diversify our classes.