Another Paladin Thread: Throw Rocks!

[Slife]

My take on the paladin is as a servant of justice, regardless of whatever laws are in place. Mercy isn't his job. This seems to solve about 95% of the paladin questions.

Of course, I also prefer not to use neutral in any alignments titles other than TN. I call NG True Good, LN True lawful, and so on.

Brief two minute synopsis:
Justice is LG, mercy is CG. TG uses both.

TL is for law for law's sake, TC is chaos for chaos's sake. TN is typically reserved for animals, or REALLY passive people.

CE is the love of destruction, violent rage, impulsive evil.
LE could be considered vengeance or corruption (the evil opposite, in one sense, of justice). Tyrants fall between LE and TE
TE is just... evil. Either completely dedicated to evil, or the self above everything else.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I knew that the orc was a bandit; I had absolutely no proof that he was a murderer.

You think he was raiding caravans doing nonlethal damage, then?

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Touché

You think he was raiding caravans doing nonlethal damage, then?

You don't need to necessarily kill anyone to rob a caravan, however I definitely see your point.

-Samir

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Pitiful Orc Behavior

Also, I did neglect to mention two critical facts.

The orc prisoner promised to stop his evil ways while he was blubbering to us. He also specifically begged the "pretty lady" (i.e., the paladin) to spare his life.

-Samir

 

[Thurbane]

Evil prisoners are the eternal dilemma of Paladins and other LG types.

To me, these are some of the relevant factors:

1. Will letting the prisoner live and/or flee ultimately endager the lives of more innocents?

2. What are the chances for the prisoner to be rehabilitated? Are they genuinely remorseful for their misdeeds, or only interested in saving their own skin?

3. What emphasis does the Paladin and/or his church/deity place on revenge as opposed to rehabilitation? A Paladin of St Cuthbert might have a very different viewpoint than a Paladin of Pelor.

4. Will having to guard/transport the prisoner impede on the Paladin's abilities to protect other innocents? Is there an effective means of incarceration at hand?

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Neither really, but to be honest the session made me feel uncomfortable. Talking about it is cathartic and allows me to achieve discernment.

Ideally, I'd like to work out differences between my mage and the paladin. After all, I am friends with her player IRL.

If I come to the conclusion that Nigel Yarrow cannot co-exist with the Fair Wyndess, then I will have him leave the party and create a new character that can.

In-game drama is fine, but so is plot "flow".

-Samir

See, I think this is more the real issue. The paladiny coating just makes it easier as a mass market sort of thing.

Mind if I venture a guess? In that situation, I'd be bugged that she went and killed the orc. But I'd be more bugged that she disregarded what I said. As another player at the table who knew about the conversation that had happened, she more or less decided to make a liar out of me and break the agreement. Even if the character didn't know what had happened, the player did.

Of course, I could be completely wrong. Killing orcs might just be out of your comfort zone.

Either way, I'd suggest having a conversation about it out of game. Just mention that you felt uncomfortable and see if there are any things you can do in the future to keep situaitons a little more in areas that you're both ok with. It also may help to simply explain why you got upset about it. I know that most of the people I RP with are boneheaded when it comes to recognising other people's thoughts.

 

[Thanatos]

Also, I did neglect to mention two critical facts.

The orc prisoner promised to stop his evil ways while he was blubbering to us. He also specifically begged the "pretty lady" (i.e., the paladin) to spare his life.

-Samir

Well...I don't know if I would call those critical. Afterall, a prisoner of most any kind is likely to say whatever he thinks his captors want to her in order to secure his freedom. And as long as he is evil, he is unlikely to keep his word left to his own devices.

 

[Sejs]

Well...I don't know if I would call those critical. Afterall, a prisoner of most any kind is likely to say whatever he thinks his captors want to her in order to secure his freedom. And as long as he is evil, he is unlikely to keep his word left to his own devices.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Blubbering out promises when the other option is ...or else... doesn't really hold as much water.

Particularly, they're not the kind of promises that wind up being kept once the threat of looming death abates.

You think he was raiding caravans doing nonlethal damage, then?

He was the nicest orcish raider ever.

 

[Telsar]

All of the following is just an opinion:

I think whether the paladin's actions were ethically inappropriate, or evil, is between that player and her GM. Those two might have opinions on what proper paladin behavior is, possibly different or exactly the same, but their's are the only opinions that matter.

But this is the internet, so I'll give my opinion anyway. If I were her GM, I'd say she committed an evil act. Not because he was running away, or unarmed, (and I only skimmed this thread, so someone else may have stated this), but because she basically waited until her teammates got all the use out of him they could before she ran him through. It's functionally equivalent to making the orc carry everyone's equipment back to their home base before killing him there. If it was really so important that he die, she should have dispatched him before he woke up.

But the problem here seems to be an in-character one; the party probably already have had discussions on group decisions, like splitting up loot. What to do with prisoners is another thing that the group should be deciding in advance. You also need to decide if you all like/trust one another enough that one (or some) of you can make decisions for everyone... like letting a captured orc go. If you don't trust each other enough, that's fine, makes for some interesting drama, but no one should be talking for the whole group as long as you don't.

 

[Thotas]

"The killing of the orc is not an issue, it is the giving a promise to the rest of his party that is the problem. A paladin should be forthright in dispatching evil."

Grimslade covered it pretty much in entirety right there. However, the part that is a problem is a huge problem. Palys get Charisma related powers to encourage them to become good leaders in the fight against evil and chaos. The incident in question was far from an example of the sort of behavior that inspires others to follow you.