Another RPG company with financial difficulties

[Belen]

BU: You seem to be suggesting that "bypassing distributors" is equal to "online sales". I'm not sure why you're doing that. Isn't it possible for game stores to buy direct from publishers and thus bypass distributors?

No. It is not possible for stores to buy direct from publishers. First off, most game stores are already running thin on time. Asking them to be familar with EVERY product and know EVERY publisher is unrealistic. You are suddenly asking game stores to invest significant man hours just to order product.

Second: Most game stores receive product first and pay for it after they receive it. If you buy direct from publishers, then you have to pay upfront. Most stores simplely cannot afford it. For example, sample FLGS orders $1000 dollars of product from the distributor on Monday. They know they will receive it on Wednesday. They know that they will mail the check on Friday. Luckily, they can pay for it by Friday.

Third: The shipping costs will be outrageous!!!! You buy 1 book here, 2 books there and if you want it in a good amount of time, then you will pay through the teeth. A distributor sends the order on bulk, with one low shipping charge and can guarantee when the items will arrive.

Bypassing distributors is a sure fire way to kill off all the game stores.

Distributors are necessary!

 

[Belen]

mm75: I wouldn't take for granted that book publishers can "afford" to take those losses on unsold books, either. Certainly the Canadian publishing industry is very heavily subsidised by the government and most of the smaller presses pretty much operate at a solid loss.

Publishing anything is not a good place to be right now. The whole system is creaky and undernourished and there's going to be significant changes in the way the business operates in the medium term. It's already changed a lot, but I think there's going to be rocky times ahead...

Now that is a problem. Government subsidy is a joke and that will lead to the downfall of the Canadian publishing industry.

 

[Fiery James]

Yeah, but that's a tough road to walk.

If decisions are made solely based on sales forecasts rather than passion for the work - it shows, and such products sometimes may fail because of it. Granted, passion without business savvy is just as likely to fail, but I would think you need both for a successful product.

True, so sometimes it's a good idea to make sure that the guy signing the checks and running the company isn't also the guy designing the games and such... sometimes.

...Now let's talk about when we'll see Battlebox 2...

Well, BattleBox: Arcana Evolved will be out near the end of March!

While it's set up as an AE product, there should be a lot of useful stuff for D&D as well... including "Condition Cards" - so you always know exactly what it means to be fatigued, or blinded, or dying...

- JB

 

[Mercule]

What FLGS's need to do mainly is put the F back in FLGS.

Bingo! Get the man a cupie doll. Almost every "FLGS" I've been in had an owner who reminded me of the annoying card dealer in the movie "Tombstone", or "Comic Store Guy" from the Simpsons.

The best was a guy who ran a hobby store so he could finance/facilitate his coin collecting and his wife(?) and her friend could do their knitting/model doll houses/other crafts. He told me the RPGs were there basically because he had a aisle and they made more money than yet another row of yarn would. Unfortunately, he's finally retired.

The next best was Mayhem in Ames/Des Moines. They can be kinda cliquish, but they don't seem to trash any games and provide areas to play, etc. Most regulars are treated with respect. It was worth the extra cost to support them than to buy online.

My gaming budget is $40 a month. That means my choice is either to A) buy one book, locally, and get it now, or B) buy two from BN.com/Amazon and get them in two days. When the LGS isn't providing me any service beyond handing me a dead tree, I absolutely cannot justify buying from them.

 

[barsoomcore]

Distributors are necessary!

So what are the guys over at HERO Games thinking? Are they doomed?

 

[barsoomcore]

Government subsidy is a joke and that will lead to the downfall of the Canadian publishing industry.

Well, it's been going on for probably a hundred years or so, so I wouldn't hold my breath...

But this is probably too close to politics for this particular board...

 

[Krypter]

Well, I've been a dedicated roleplayer for many years now, and as I get older I find that I'm not buying rpg books to play them but just to *read* them. I already have enough rpg material for several dozen lifetimes of playing, especially at the glacial pace we do it nowadays. If rpg publishers want to increase their appeal to a wider, more mainstream audience, I would suggest they create a hybrid of novels and sourcebooks. Something that would be entertaining just to read, not necessarily to play, and would still be useful to someone running or playing a campajgn.

I have a lot of disposable income, but I'm not going to shell it out for yet another rules supplement. The triumph of d20 has created a huge emphasis on rules that crowds out the daydreaming and ideas of fantasy prose. Perhaps rpg companies should dip a toe into the waters of slick glossy art or coffee-table books. Something thick on visuals and spattered with light D&D-isms. "The Illustrated World of Dragons" (80% art with 20% rules-lite text) or some such nonsense. It might sustain them in the general market, which would provide funds for more niche products like classic D&D adventures.

And yes, RPG companies have to consolidate. There is market power in consolidation, from demanding a better distribution deal to cutting printing costs. This in turn lowers the retail price of your products, which attracts more customers, etc. Right now the exact opposite seems to be true, and it can become a death spiral for some. You can't run a company from the basement forever.

EDIT: Oh, and start focusing on selling your books through normal book stores, not FLGS. Nobody except weirdoes, children and deviants like us visits FLGS. Normal people wouldn't touch them with a ten-foot pole. That's your dang bottleneck right there.

 

[Carnifex]

So what are the guys over at HERO Games thinking? Are they doomed?

I'm guessing they're more targeting the customers rather than the games stores when they're asking people to buy direct from them.

 

[Kanegrundar]

The way I see as the gaming (both console/computer and printed) industry grows and expands, you're not going to see as many people getting into pen and paper gaming. Games are really going to have to become better promoted to compete with video games. CCG's that sell well are usually ones that are tied in with a multitude of other products: cartoons, video games, movies, etc. For a new PnP company to come out that wants to draw on something more than simply the established gamer crowd (with PnP games that's a crowd that's shinking) they are going to have to do something that really gets the buyer's attention. WotC likely won't ever have that problem since Dungeons and Dragons is pretty much a household name, but other companies, like HERO, need to find a way to expand their visibility in a market already flooded with so many products vying for a gamer's dollar. If not, you're only likely to see a handful of easy to find, popular game publishers.

Another thing that would help to increase sales, would be for more cross-pollinization of systems and settings. With the advent of the OGL movement we've seen this in products from GoO and Pinnacle (to name a couple) putting out dual-statted books. That allows not only those that play in the original system to have interest in the books, but also those that play in other systems as well.

All in all I think that this period of a "thinning of the herd", so to speak, will be good for the RPG industry in the long run. D20 brought out a lot of crap companies that put out nothing but crap product, but there have been some really good publishers come out as well (Malhavoc, Green Ronin, Ronin Arts, etc). Those that are going to be left standing are those that consistently put out quality products that aren't likely to languish on store shelves. Many FLGS's have gotten burned so bad by the crappy D20 proudct tidal wave, that several have gone under, while others are leery about ordering from untested companies. This will get the stores back to a point where they'll feel more confident about what to stock. (As long as they are knowledgable. Thankfully, the 3 shops I frequent are ran by people that are friendly, and truly love RPG's.)

Kane

 

[Rasyr]

BU: You seem to be suggesting that "bypassing distributors" is equal to "online sales". I'm not sure why you're doing that. Isn't it possible for game stores to buy direct from publishers and thus bypass distributors?

Yup. ICE sells directly to retailers for about what they can get from the distributor, many times it is less that what the distributor charges, as distributors base the discount given to retailers on the size of their order, rather than them being a retailer.

And of course, as has already been pointed out in this thread, the reason up to now that direct sales are expensive is because publishers aren't ALLOWED to discount their books (or else they'll be undercutting their distributors) -- so if distributors are no longer required, the publishers will be able to charge lower prices.

Sorry, but that is wrong. Companies selling products at cover price are doing it not because of distributors, but because of retailers. Many retailers would boycott a company for selling at a lower cost than they can.