Another RPG company with financial difficulties

Krypter said:
EDIT: Oh, and start focusing on selling your books through normal book stores, not FLGS.
And you know what would happen? A lot more rpg companies would go out of business. The distributors for book chains have this little thing called "returns". And at the end of the year, they tend to "return" a lot of products. This was a (quite possibly a major) factor in what happened to GoO.

By returning products, the book chain distributors make their end-of-year balance sheets look better (less stock on hand). They will then often then turn around and re-order what they returned a month or so later.

This plays havoc with the accounting practices and cash flow of small companies...
 

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Rasyr said:
Companies selling products at cover price are doing it not because of distributors, but because of retailers. Many retailers would boycott a company for selling at a lower cost than they can.
Well, you and maddman75 will have to fight it out, I guess:
maddman75 said:
if the discounters can still sell those books at a profit at those prices, why can't the creators? Because it will tick their distributors off.
My understanding is that publishers sell to distributors at a discount, so that the distributors can make a profit while the retailers sell at cover price (or whatever sort of discount they can make off the distributor's price). The first problem for publishers wanting to get into direct sales is that they cannot offer retail or consumer buyers the same price they offer distributors, otherwise there's no upside for the distributors. So if the publisher does offer that price directly, distributors are going to be disinclined to put that publisher's books on their order forms.

Obviously undercutting retailers is also a problem, but my logic tells me that you start undercutting distributors BEFORE you start undercutting retailers, since it is the price set by the distributor that has the most impact on the price the retailer can afford. And anyways, just because a company is dumping distributors doesn't mean they won't offer discounts to retailers. Retailers can still make out even if the distributors are getting cut out of the supply chain.

The big problem with dumping distributors is then getting your products into stores. As BelenUmeria points out, most store managers are not going to take the time to look into the industry and select books from individual publishers. I'm not sure that it's crazy talk to think a store manager might do exactly that, but that seems to be BU's point.
 

BelenUmeria said:
Now that is a problem. Government subsidy is a joke and that will lead to the downfall of the Canadian publishing industry.

Do me a favour and let me know when that hapens, OK? Before that, though, realize that , in my rough estimation, about a third of the industry prints here.

There's China as an alternative, but choosing a censorious totalitarian regime to print creative work? That *is* a joke.
 

MMORPGs and X-Box Live ate my gaming group. Six people.

I'm not talking casual gamers either. Hardcore, 5-page character background-writing, sourcebook buying, everyone had their own PHB, campaign web-page making Alpha gamers. Gone (and the ones I still talk to have no plans to pick up dice again).

After months of trying, I scraped together a new group of three. Enter World of Warcraft (amusingly enough, they now play with my original group). Exit group.

Nine gamers. Nine consumers. Gone. Poof, like that.

Now, this is the part where everyone tells me how anecdotal evidence doesn't mean jack, and how my chicken-little attitude is counter-productive.

You're probably right. All I know is, I don't game anymore. On the bright side, it turns out WoW actually *is* as fun as all my friends said it was.

Later.
 

Rasyr said:
And you know what would happen? A lot more rpg companies would go out of business. The distributors for book chains have this little thing called "returns". And at the end of the year, they tend to "return" a lot of products. This was a (quite possibly a major) factor in what happened to GoO.

Not unless GoO's stuff is carried by the major book chain distributors; I can't say that I've ever seen a GoO product in a major book chain unless it was a special order, so I kind of doubt they are (It's possible some of their anime guides might be; can't say, I've never seen them there, though.). If they are not carried by that major distributor, they almost always fall into the dreaded 'non-returnable' status unless the chain was able to cut some kind of deal. They can't be returned for credit. Almost all FLGS's work that way, which is why some still have stuff on the shelves that went out of print years ago.
 

The reason for declining sales are ultimately the same as they have ben in every other year sales have declined -- that is, every year from the mid to late 90s, if you're keeping track -- namely, there are fewer new gamers. It seems that the decline was staved off by D20 and some restructuring, but now that the D20 effect has come and gone, it's back. Aside from the lack of new players, here are what I se as other culprits:

1) Unprofessional companies muddying the industry.

The barrier for entry into commercial game design is now effectively nil. Unfortunately, the industry has handled this pretty badly, by allowing culture where somebody's .pdf on Orcs and the latest HERO release are put on nearly equal footing.

The fact is that there should be a distinction between companies with commercial goals and hobbyists out to release a game no matter the cost. This distinction works well in virtually every other media form and allows good hobbyists to actually look forward to the chance of moving up, without dragging other established companies down.

As a rough example, I think that RPGNow would be much livelier if about 75% of its listed merchants gave up.

I know. I'm a bad, cruel man. The fact is, though, that an outfit where the creator is willing to lose money on each and every product has an advantage over businesses that actual want to be viable. The trouble is, of course, that most people willing to lose money will *never* leverage that into a sound business plan. They just want to see their name on pen-paper.net.

2) Redundant D20 product.

Related to the first issue, we have lots and lots of D20 stuff that was either going to be covered by WotC anyway, was reproduced by practically every company making fantasy .pdfs, or simply wasn't very good. Eventual failure here, though, merely stripped away deceptive chaff.

3) Lack of collective strategy.

The RPG industry has a terrible public profile. This hobby is ether ignored, mistaken for computer gaming, or held in contempt. D&D in partcular has been spectacularly mismanaged, with TSR and later WotC allowing product placement that holds their product in contempt.

Meanwhile, there are no collective branding, crossmarketing or effective consumer education programs. You would think this was GAMA's job, but aside from a few wan documents about educational games and Stackpole's refutation of Satanism, there's nothing there.

The one exeption is the "indie" brand which I think is inaccurate, but nonetheless a good grassroots effort to give a set of games a distinct identity.

I personally think this situation (not indie stuff, the rest of it) is related to the declining number of gamers and expanding number of companies. Many, *many* people know that the winnowing is doing its work, but *everyone* thinks that their company is special, that they have an exceptional nsight into things or a scheme that means they'll hit the top (or the top 5 steps after WotC) of the hill.

As a result, instead of cooperating, companies have in many cases tried to stymie each other's efforts. I'll spare the gruesome details except to say that I've noted that RPG fora are where a lot of this maneuvering takes place.

4) Brain drain.

Related to the low barrier for entry, we've had some companies offer penny a word contracts, offer *nothing* but trade, ask for huge on spec assignments and generally treat their creatives like dirt. Show me a company that's constantly pumping out dodgy or late product, and I'll show you a company that fires folks to avoid giving them raises, doesn't pay writers and artists as agreed (note that, White Wolf and Adamant have never done this to me, so I'm not dropping hints about them). Too many companies treat creatives like disposible objects that can be replaced with fandom in a pinch. When said fans are late or shoddy, they pay for it and use it as an excuse to drive labour standards even lower. Upward advancement is nearly nonexistant.

Poor standards is not the only reason, but it contributes to a production bottom line that is often too cheap to compete with without shoddy results. Even if I'm a self-starter, margins and maximum production expenses are low enough that my business either cuts corners or operates an an excessive loss. This means I'm forced int a lousy business plan, which, as I noted above, hurts everybody.

As a result, folks leave. John Tynes (Unknown Armies, Delta Green) is finished with this industry and actually recommends that folks don't start. Others have gone into journalism, other hobby games, computer games, and so forth.

5) Not enough new gamers.

. . . because you can never say this enough.
 

eyebeams said:
5) Not enough new gamers.

. . . because you can never say this enough.

Well, given that (A) the entire industry seems happy to allow D&D (and maybe Vampire and Star Wars) to be the only games that bother to try to recruit new gamers, (B) that these gatekeeper games affect the make-up of most of the people in the hobby, and (C) few experienced gamers seem to have the ability to understand what begining gamers really need, that's not really surprising.

It's as if all publishers relied on a single publisher of military history non-fiction to teach the population to read and then tried to pitch their books on other subjects to the fan base the military history publisher already recruited.
 

Mercule said:
My gaming budget is $40 a month. That means my choice is either to A) buy one book, locally, and get it now, or B) buy two from BN.com/Amazon and get them in two days. When the LGS isn't providing me any service beyond handing me a dead tree, I absolutely cannot justify buying from them.

The thing that can kill publishers is lack of restocks, where the store sells out of an item, but never restocks it, whether because they fear they have saturated the market, or it took a while for the product to sell the first copies, or just don't think of it.

And of late a lot of game stores have been very poor about restocks. I remember a conversation with a local comics/games store a whiles back.
Me: Why don't you have any Space Marine Assault Troops?
Owner: Because we haven't sold any in months.
Me: You haven't had any in months!

It turned out that they had sold the first week he got them in, but because all the sales were in the first week he had decided that sales had tapered off... (This was a person who only did inventory once a year.) In honesty he was much better informed about the Comics end of his business, and could tell you pretty much what he had in stock at any time, but he really didn't care about the games, so they suffered.

The other problem is with stores that want you to special order product - if I am going to have to wait a few weeks I might as well go to Amazon, where at least I get a discount. The exception to this here in Portland, Maine is the store Annie's Book Stop, which puts in an order every 3 days or so, and gives a 20% discount into the bargain. They are not a game store, but I get better service from them than from either of the game shops in my area. The staff is friendly, do not pretend to know about stuff they are ignorant of, and do not act put upon to stop jawing with their friends in order to deal with a customer. Guess which one I place special orders with? Faster, cheaper, friendlier service... I would order from the game shop if I got even one of those. But they don't, so I don't.

And I have learned not to listen to the game shop's opinion on games either. They have a tendency to try to hawk their current favorite system rather than listen to what the customer is looking for. ('No, really, the Tri Stat system is just what you want for a detailed skill resolution and combat system!' Oh for the love of Mud!)

The Auld Grump
 

WayneLigon said:
Not unless GoO's stuff is carried by the major book chain distributors; I can't say that I've ever seen a GoO product in a major book chain unless it was a special order, so I kind of doubt they are (It's possible some of their anime guides might be; can't say, I've never seen them there, though.). If they are not carried by that major distributor, they almost always fall into the dreaded 'non-returnable' status unless the chain was able to cut some kind of deal. They can't be returned for credit. Almost all FLGS's work that way, which is why some still have stuff on the shelves that went out of print years ago.
Mark MacKinnon of GoO mentioned book returns as one of the reasons for the scaling back at GoO. Normal rpg distributors (Alliance, ACD, etc..) do not do returns, only the book chain distributors (such as Ingrams) do that.
 

John Morrow said:
It's as if all publishers relied on a single publisher of military history non-fiction to teach the population to read and then tried to pitch their books on other subjects to the fan base the military history publisher already recruited.
That's frickin' brilliant.

I think the single biggest barrier to new players joining the game is the complexity of character generation. If D&D was sold as a game where you take on one of, say, forty pre-defined characters, but then also gave you the tools to develop or tweak characters on your own, I think it would be a lot less intimidating to non-players.

But the first half of the PHB (at least the Abilities, Classes, Skills, Feats and Equipment sections) all looks like stuff you need to know before you start play, which is nonsense.

My evidence is anecdotal, but I have introduced maybe twenty or so people to gaming in just the last few years. All of them have loved the game and asked for repeat sessions. None of them had to do any chargen at all -- I created their characters for them, sometimes based on a quick discussion of what they'd like, but more often just by arbitrarily assigning characters to players. A couple have since transitioned to actually wanting to learn the rules and develop their characters themselves, but the vast majority are more than happy to just play characters without worrying about HOW anything happens.

Is what I've found.
 

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