Another RPG company with financial difficulties

[woodelf]

I agree. How often do I have to buy a core rulebook? The rest is decoration. It's no wonder why companies like CCGs. It's hard to keep up a constant buying cycle with your customers without alienating them in tabletop RPGs. You can try to bring out a new edition every year, but I suppose that won't work too well, either. At least not with me .

Well, we're trying the "regular" game-manufacturer model: mostly one-shot, stand-alone games, with the occasional supplement/"expansion"/sequel. IOW, rather than game lines, do single game books. Write the best version of that particular RPG we can, publish it, and then write our next one. It seems to be working for several of teh smaller guys. Should demand warrant it *and* we have sufficient material in our heads, we'll revisit an earlier game with a revision or supplement. But, mostly, one book per game, and that's it.

Yes, i'm aware that the gameplay of Monopoly is radically different than D&D. However, i'm not sure the buying demographic is. Or, rather, i strongly suspect there's a viable market segment that is interested in RPGs, but not necessarily the current endless-treadmill supplement cycle, or just sticking with one RPG for years at a time. It seems to be working for some small publishers, let's hope it works for us.

 

[woodelf]

That's brutal. I used to make about 17-20 cents a word writing a weekly column about Professional Wrestling which, to my mind anyway, was considerably easier to just crank out than game material.

Last i heard, "big" RPG publishers pay 4 cents/word, and if you're a big name, it *might* get as high as 6 cents/word. And you [the generic you, not Telfon Billy in particular] wonder why they keep leaving the industry. We gotta pay them more, especially established, well-liked (i.e., heavily-bought) authors.

 

[Glyfair]

I think the economy has very little to do with the gaming industry. It's such a small and niche market. The economy has more of an effect on people buying houses and cars than it does on a few more books being sold.

Niche market purchases actually tend to be heavily affected by the economy, as I understand it.

I regularly talk to the owner of one of the FLGSs in my area. About a year ago, he was commenting that while the economy was down, he sales were way down. People didn't have the extra money to spend on things like roleplaying games, comic books, books, etc. His regulars were still buying, but they were buying much less. That was compounded by the fact that a lot more of his regulars were out of work, and they weren't buying anything to speak of.

Of course, right now a "friend" of his opened a game store across the street from him. So, of course, things are much more complicated now than the economy.

 

[Rasyr]

Is it really generalizing if it's not the general circumstances? I.e., if your terms and my terms and pretty much everyone else are net 30 -- why say that 60 and 90 is generally the case?

Hmm.. I thought that I had recalled that some distributors used different terms (Your own comments about the terms for book trade distributors bears this out a little bit), and don't really know what terms other companies have, so I did not want to be too inaccurate, so that is why I gave a range (note I said 30-90 days, not 60-90)

Distributors just aren't that bad. In fact, they're pretty darn good.

Some are. ACD is very good. Then again, there is one distributor who refuses to carry ICE products because of a personal grudge on the part of a one of their VPs. So, to me, they tend to run the gamut.

I admire the heck out of ICE forging a path largely without them

Thanks! Though, obviously I cannot take credit for that. That was implemented before I ever joined ICE. Just wait until you see the next path we forge.....

 

[Belen]

So what are the guys over at HERO Games thinking? Are they doomed?

In the short run, no, but in the long run, yes. Online only will doom them to a ever smaller market share. The lower sales may be offset by lower production costs, so that may save them if they are close to the edge.

The online environment will not give them any market penetration and will basically only work for their diehard fans. Most people want print.

 

[Belen]

I'm guessing they're more targeting the customers rather than the games stores when they're asking people to buy direct from them.

Not really, they are only targeting their existing customers.

 

[Tav_Behemoth]

Niche market purchases actually tend to be heavily affected by the economy, as I understand it.

And other society-wide factors too. From a post at the Forge:

From my information (people with inside contacts at WotC, etc.) the entire RPG market, indie and corporate, has undergone a 20% contraction since the beginning of the war in Iraq, because so many soldiers are avid RPGers.

We can attest that the second part of this is true, because one of our founders, Brian Stith, served in Kosovo & organized an enthusiastically-received Ars Magica campaign over there; our donation to the Baghdad Hobby Club was inspired by Brian's experience.

 

[MonsterMash]

I don't think writers and publishers CAN do anymore. Writers are already paid so very little and many publishers aren't even paying them. The amount of money owed me by other publishers is ridiculous, but I also know that I will never see it now because the reality of the marketplace is that RPG sales are not improving. Oh, and to educate anyone who may feel like saying that writers are overpaid for what they do, many publishers are now only paying a flat sum or .01/word depending on the project and its size. Yeah, sad...

The .01/word is about what writers like Lovecraft or R.E. Howard were getting paid by Wierd Tales back in the 1930's, so its very low now. Shows most writers do it for the love of it and there are only a few who can make a living at it.

 

[Belen]

The lack of advertising I find paticularly galling. Yeah, I know its expensive. But it can pay off. Why do people assume that even though ads sell cars, computer games, and dishwashing soap it won't sell roleplaying games. A couple of good ads that show what a good time an RPG can be could create tons of new gamers. Heck, *I* was made into a gamer by an ad. A one page comic in a comic book, I still remember it. A band of adventurers trying to get into an evil wizard's tower, and at the end they said that YOU had to figure out what happens next! That sounded like the coolest thing on earth to a brainy 12 year old. I bugged my mom until she took me to the next town over, where I spent some birthday money on a new PHB and Greyhawk Adventures. Then I tried to run a game with a friend. It was weak, had no idea what I was doing, and it was the most fun either of us ever had. It wasn't too long before we met a couple of brothers that played too, and our group was born.

Agreed. As long as we rely on the "industry" to advertise, then we are doomed. Most of the smaller companies just cannot afford to advertise, or if they do, then they advertise in Dragon or ENWorld. How is that reaching a new audience?

Only Hasbro has the funds to advertise and they will in no way mass market the game. Hasbro is too conservative and RPGs do not make them enough money. So why do we expect Hasbro to CARE about us?

We need a society of gamers, for gamers, and run by gamers. The goal of that society is to promote our hobby. TV SHOWS that are canceled have more fan outcry than the RPG industry. Heck, Firefly was canceled and got an ad in Vanity Fair?

Why can't we raise money for an ad in Vanity fair!?

Only by taking responsibility for our passion can we really support it. We need an society. Period.

 

[MonsterMash]

There should be an unber noob section with progressive flow charts, and an advanced part for the old vets. Personally if feel like the pen and paper industry is designed around the Old vets and doesn’t cater to guys like me. also, im like in my 30's and have NEVER in all my life any recollection of ANY add or marketing for DnD.

In more recent editions of Call of Cthulhu (BRP) Chaosium has made the character creation section more user friendly and I think it'd be good for D&D to have this sort of thing.

The lord of the rings trilogy was the greatest opportunity to get people playing this game. And it came and it went. I hear that they are doing the hobbit. The hobbit. Most possibly the foundation that started it all.

My point is a market that is not marketed is a dead market.

I wonder how well Decipher's LotR RPG has sold as they did pay to have art from the movies and that big opportunity to live off someone elses publicity and marketing.

Games Workshop seems to market its products heavily and seems to try and make sure their shop staff have some kind of customer service approach. With the FLGS in the Uk, there seem to be a number of ways to approach the business - Leisure Games has built up their mail order business (and are helped by Amazon.uk carrying a lot less gaming material) whille Playin Games uses its tourist area location and tends to carry RPG as a less major part of their stock than many games stores.