Another strategy thread.

[Pielorinho]

The most valuble thing in a D&D combat is an action. Never do something during combat that you could've done before or after.

Definitely. To add to this, always try to accomplish something in every one of your turns. It's very rare that you'll want to delay your way through an entire round of combat; if you delay, it should be for a specific purpose.

If you're a wizard with an 8 dex and no offensive spells, and the big bad is in the middle of combat with the party fighter, you can still throw your dagger. You might not hit, but it's better than doing nothing.

I often see people who, because they don't have a really good option in combat, choose to do nothing that round. That's a waste of a precious resource.

Always consider whether you can maximize your round: if you make a single attack, or cast a spell, then you're left with a move or move-equivalent action. Can you do anything useful with this? Can you get into a better position? Can you move out of the way so that an ally can join in the attack? Can you drop your current weapon and draw a better one? Can you pull a potion out of your belt pouch, getting ready to drink it next round?

Charge! The disadvantage to charging (-2 to AC) rarely outweighs the advantages (getting in an attack at +2 ac that you otherwise wouldn't have gotten at all). As often as possible, charge.

Communicate! Tell folks that you need healing. Ask for flanking partners. If you're an archer, tell the frontline guys to clear a path so that you can get a clear shot in without the frontline guys providing cover to the enemy.

Finally, try to anticipate what the bad guys are doing, and respond. If you're standing on a rope bridge and they're not on the rope bridge, there's a pretty good chance they're gonna try to cut you down. Get off that bridge ASAP--and preferably get all the PCs onto the same side of the bridge.

Daniel

 

[Navar]

I am shocked to see that noone has mentioned items that help you control the field. At low levels Tanglefoot bags, Smokesticks, and Thunderstones are all FANTASTIC ways to help you control the field when fighting. After that the wizard can do better stuff but until 5th level these items are your best friends.

 

[Greylock]

I have to ask. Why? From the sound of it, this was the only reason you lost two PCs.

'Cause this was a very long rope bridge. Two seperate spans with an "island" in the middle. The first span, IIRC was 80 feet, the second (where the doomed players were) about 120. We were only about 20 feet from the end and determined to press on. It's unlikely that the fighter, ranger and sorceror would have made it back once they'd already wasted one turn fighting the good fight. The fighter would have certainly taken a fall one way or the other, being closest to the end and wearing medium armor. Very lucky rolls are the only reason he made it out.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Being one of those players I can fill you in.

We've got a Wilderness Rogue, a Druid with an owl companion, and a Fighter.
We had a dwarf sorcerer and human ranger, but alas they have been killed by gravity and won't factor in any longer. I think one of the replacement characters is going to be an elf barbarian, but that could change, and as for the other I have no idea. [EDIT] I think we're all level 3. If not we're 1 L3 and the rest are L2.

The battle that prompted this thread and much discussion on our yahoo group was an ambush at a rope bridge stretching over a chasm. We were ambushed by a lemure summoning cleric and her small hoard o' goblins. The lemure was quickly killed, the cleric (played very well by a visiting player) cast fog cloud (or something like that). All of us were on the bridge, leading the first horse across when the ambush began.

We made generally reasonable combat choices, I thought. The W-Rogue worked at picking off goblins from a choice distance, the fighter moved to close on the cleric, the ranger (hindered by a horrible initiative roll) did the same, the sorcerer worked on killing goblins, and the druid calmed the horses.

Then the first of the bridge's three ropes was cut. No one fell, not even the horse (GM rolls the horse's reflex save, looks at the result and says "I don't think horses get a +4 reflex save". The fighter had already checked his SRD printout of "Horse, Light" and was smiling).

The druid worked on getting the horse to the safety of "our" side of the bridge. The W/Rogue fired a blind shot into the fog cloud (and actually made a very lucky hit!) and then ran for the safety of solid ground.

The other three remained on the rope bridge. The far end was obscured by the fog cloud, but after one strand had been cut, you can probably guess what was going on.

1 round later the others were 85 feet down. When they hit the ground the fighter and ranger were still alive, but only the fighter made his stabilze roll.

I've been thinking that our biggest problems in combat are communication and that we don't fight as a team, but as a bunch of individuals that happen to be on the same side. When we've had a chance to make a plan and act on it we have shined brightly. Four of us took out three of Alish2o's kerbals (feral wookies) with no damage but from a cold-die induced weapons fumble. This fight might have gone very differently had we remembered something we perpetually forget - THE #$@*ing OWL!!!

So that's who we are and how we had our numbers cut. There's been some ideas brought out in this thread already that I'm going to jot down, and I look forward to hearing more now that you have more information on the situation.

Honestly, I don't think you did all that badly. The ambush on the rope bridge is a classic and at low levels it is very difficult to deal with. The key as you said is group communication. ASAP you as a group need to decide to fight or flee. If you decide to flee, EVERYONE flees. If you decide to fight, you need to quickly decide WHERE to fight. Never, NEVER fight on the bridge unless you can be sure you can't fall. Your close combattants (the fighter, the ranger and possibly the rogue) need to rush across the bridge ASAP or stay on the near side and use missile weapons with the sorcerer using his spells. Again, do not fight on the bridge.

Personally, in that situation I would've immediately given up ground and retreated off of the bridge to the near side unless I was sure that my melee combattants could make it safely to the far side. At that point I would've hunkered down for a missile duel or simply retreated. Take cover and let the enemy come to you if he wants to fight you, and let him fight you in a place of YOUR choosing. If necessary, wait out the fog cloud while under cover. I don't believe in charging into an area where visibility is poor and the terrain is unfavorable wihtout any way of knowing what you are facing. At low levels that can be suicidal.

By the way, what spells did the sorcerer have?

Tzarevitch

 

[Greylock]

Oh, and one more thing:

I, the player, was guilty of doing a HORRIBLE job visualising the whole encounter, and was way too focused on direct combat with the BBEG. Most of the poor choices were mine. But, that's kinda how I envisioned the char. He has been making a habit out of forcing issues. Maybe this will teach him a lesson (Ren, Bessie, care to start 'educating' Aneirin, right upside the head?)

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Another piece of advice: Avoid drawing AoO's as much as possible. On the other hand, sometimes you can intentionally draw an AoO to allow another PC to do something safely - in our last game, my wizard with 18 hp intentionally provoked an AoO from an undead thing that otherwise would have taken an attack on the very injured party cleric, who was desperately needing to cast a cure spell on the party tank, who was unconscious and drowning in 4 ft of water. I took the shot, so that she could save the fighter - otherwise one would have died, and the other knocked unconscious and very probably dead soon afterwards.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

'Cause this was a very long rope bridge. Two seperate spans with an "island" in the middle. The first span, IIRC was 80 feet, the second (where the doomed players were) about 120. We were only about 20 feet from the end and determined to press on. It's unlikely that the fighter, ranger and sorceror would have made it back once they'd already wasted one turn fighting the good fight. The fighter would have certainly taken a fall one way or the other, being closest to the end and wearing medium armor. Very lucky rolls are the only reason he made it out.

Hmm... assuming human fighter, medium armor, the 'run', or move as a full round action for 4x base movement (20) = 80'. Even if he was in the precise middle of the bridge, he could've made safety. If he was on the far third of the bridge (i.e. 90+) then he had a judgement call to make in the first round of the fight - take the fight to the bad guys or run? Don't dither - go all out for one or the other... Young fighter probably would've charged - but might have made it, or save the rope bridge long enough for backup.


On the general side of tactic/strategy - lotsa good advice floating around here. I'll just add 2 cents...

Caution.

For any level where you gain a bonus feat, exercise extreme battle caution. These are the levels that GM's tend to focus on that 'slightly tougher than you're used to combats' and any bad rolls will hurt you greatly... The best defense is a good offense, but the best offense is a good defense. As a group, balance the two. Sounds like your group tends to enjoy the -kick back and butt- approach, i.e. inflicting damage to enemies is something they enjoy as individuals. Unfortunately, that means you'll see death as individuals too.

For example, in a tightly knit group with a fighter + w_rogue - that rogue will never stray more than 20' from that fighter... He can tumble that far and still get a sneak attack on a flanked foe - and provide the fighter with a +2 to hit. 'course some rogues play w/ ranged wpns but that just costs that +2... The cleric should always have buff spells ready for any miscellany combat - and use them the moment the fight looks tough. Later, get these into items people can use for themselves. The mage is the same way, but at lower levels, he's usually better off being very inventive and sneaky. Druids of 3rd and 4th level have one very good use in combat - instant flanking ability by summoning hordes of creatures... My 3rd level druid recently spent two rounds and summoned 5 wolves - combining with her companion for 6 instant flankers/trippers. Druids get other abilities later (wildshape, etc) that'll change the tactic, but in the beginning they are great hole-pluggers for any combat with a little careful spell selections.

Caution though - remember that. Always play as if you're character felt death was around that corner and they want kill it before it kills them. Once a fighter has sprung a trap that he looked for, didn't see, and almost killed him... he should never again plunge down a corridor without letting the rogue check for traps Same goes for combat situations. It's hard, playing a character 'learning' - but doing so integrates your groups combat more and more - even with individual flaws, that 'learning' will integrate everything into a whole. For example - a fighter who always charges? The druid holds action until after the fighters charge, then summons opposite the fighter for maximum effect from the summoning, and the thief always tumbles to the far side for sneaks. Flaw turned to advantage.

Caution!

Just my two cents...

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

An Orc is not an Orc; he is a killing machine. If you treat him like he a chump, you'll get hurt.

Never underestimate the power of a critical hit, chummer. Either for you or against you, because if you play on the numbers only, chance will catch up with you.

Prepare to lose your best assets. Develop a plan for not being able to use magic or area spells, for having your best weapon sundered or having to cross a wide field under fire. If you don't have a plan for when the cleric drops, you're in bad shape.

Spread out your healing. Give the rogues and bards scrolls or wands with curative magic.

Never have your main healer more than a move action from most of your party. There are, of course, exceptions for rogues, scouts, etc.

Prepare spells and attacks for use against grappled and grappling foes.

Get as many positive modifiers as you can. Inspire Courage is a real blessing, as are Recitation and Prayer and especially Haste. These not only help save your bacon but hinder your foes as well.

Disabled foes are not helpless. Hold Spells and Charm Spells can be trumped easily, so dispatch opponents as quickly as possible.

Carry at least one adamantine weapon in the party and one silver one too.

Engage at range. If that means the tank can't unload for a round or two, that's fine. Either the enemy will close or be weakened enough for the tank to crush them.

Do your homework. Diplomacy and Gather Information are great skills.

 

[RFisher]

I have almost nothing to add. Some things bear repeating, though.

Look for synergies. Between PCs. Between spells. Can the AoO absorbant PC draw opponents into wasting their AoOs on him to free up options for other PCs? If you're playing a druid, read Fairie Fire & Obscuring Mist.

Know your options & when to use them. When should you grapple instead of attack? When should you trip? Sunder? Power attack? Full attack? Aid another? Step back 5' (or absorb a AoO), quickdraw, & throw an axe?

Don't fight fair. Know what can give you bonuses (higher ground, flanking, &c.). Know what can give your opponent penalties.

 

[argo]

You need to be able to asses the flow of combat otherwise you'll never know when to push your advantage and when to run for your life. Remember, if you wait until the party fighter drops to sound retreat its already too late! Barring unusual circumstances (a large number of combatants, a very large battlefield with the two sides on opposite ends, mid-combat reenforcements) most combats in DnD rarely last more than 6-8 rounds and most are over in 3-5. Every round counts!


Round 1: the second most important round, a lot of combats are decided right here and now. It is usually best to be highly agressive and come out swinging: rogues need to sneak attack (if your rogue doesn't have Improved Init and walk around with a ranged weapon in hand you need to have words with him) fighters should charge and power attack or ready an attack depending on how you anticipate the battle going, spelcasters should attempt to alter the battlefield (walls, fog, web) or remove an opponent from combat (charm, blindness) or buff an ally. First Round objectives in order of importance include 1)geek the mage 2)take control of a strategic objective (high ground, a beachead) or alter the battlefield with items or spells 3)drop or disable one or more opponents 4)take cover/organize you lines of battle 5)buff the party or summon help or do something else to give you a lasting benefit.

Round 2: this will either be an encore of Round 1 or else will be an early Round 3. Knowing the difference is tough but critical and comes with experience.

Round 3: this is the most important round in most combats (and sometimes comes as early as Round 2), you need to decide at the start of the round (ie: the end of round 2) if you are winning or loosing. If you are winning you should try to come up with a plan to finish off the opposition with minimal loss to your own troops and put it into action right away. Don't get cocky! Round 3 is also the round most likely to see a startling reversal of fortune; a well timed Dominate or Cure Wounds by either side could easily tip the balance here as could a lucky crit or even some mundane trick like throwing flower on an invisible opponent. If you are loosing you need to either come up with a sure-fire way to secure a victory or get out of dodge fast! Follow the advice of others in this thread about retreating in style. Everybody should try to have some way to produce a slowing/delaying tactic even if it is a humble bag of caltrops. In th event of a retreat spelcasters should hold nothing back, no point in holding back for later if there is no later. Whatever you decide you need to start working on it right away this round. Remember: by the time somebody drops its already too late!

Round 4+: from Round 4 onward battles rarely alter course barring some odd chance of fate. You are either mopping up or running for your life.

Sometimes these events don't happen in the round I say they do but they almost always happen in the order above. In a long combat Round 3 might actually be Round 5 and mop-up is Rounds 7 and 8 but the principle is the same.

Decicevness is essential. If you must then choose a party leader to decide if you stay and fight or retreat and what the plan will be. You don't have to micromanage everybody's exact actions but if your party can't decide on simple things like weither or not to flee or which enemy to kill first then you are sure to die.

If your party is large enough to have a "fifth man" it helps to have a character who is the designated "Fixer". They make the crucial decision in Round 3 and go about either helping the rest of the party mop-up or give them cover to retreat. High mobility characters with good survival ability and loaded down with wierd magic items (qualls feather token: tree, how I love you) are what you want here: the Monk and Bard are ideal while the Rogue, Ranger and Paladin can also fill this role. This poor sod has to be both creative and ballsy as it is his job to be last man out when things are at their worst.


Some other general advice:

Never never NEVER stay and fight out an ambush. The proper response to an abmush is to lay down supressive fire/concealment and fall back by fire-teams to regroup. Then you decide if you want to retreat, settle in for a long range fight, or carry the fight to the enemy somehow. Once again the spelcasters should go nuts and open up with their best stuff. If you are surrounded pick a direction and everybody charge, big guys in front to bull rush/overrun. If you are suprised but not ambushed per se then you may fight it out but go for maximum agression in the first round. It is important that you make this a standing rule in your group and stick to it. That would have saved you on the rope bridge.

Recon is key. The sneaking rogue, familiars, animal companions, divinations, or even just climbing a tree with a spyglass, it doesn't matter. Having good inteligence is often the difference between life and death. Particularly with the buffs that will soon become avliable to both you and your enemies.

Stealth is your friend. Look at everything I just said about ambushes and recon and now think of yourself on the other side of the equation.

Hire a Boyscout. Never underestimate the utility of mundane equipment. There have been plenty of threads on this board about what you can do with basic equipment, maybe alsih2o can find some of them for you.

Don't get too (self) buff happy. Casting a buff spell in round 1 is a good idea espically if it helps the entire party. Casting a buff spell in round 3 or 4 might be a waste but could give you an edge after you have had time to asess the enemy. Casting a buff spell in round 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 (even if each is on a different party member) is just plain stupid. Hurt the enemy darnit!

That's all I can think of for now. Hope that helps.