Doug McCrae
Legend
Ogres are giants and as such are covered by the skill Knowledge (Nature).Meadred said:
Another TPK - Sigh.
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ForceUser
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Wow! Thanks for all the great input. There are some suggestions here that I will remember for next time. When I realized how the encounter was going to shape up, I could have had them make a Survival check to realize that the fire, even low embers, could be seen at a significant distance. It was the campfire that got them ambushed. No campfire, and the tracking ogres would have blundered closely enough for the sentries to have easily heard and alerted the others in time to not be caught unawares (remembering that there's a -1 per 10 feet on Listen checks, the PCs on guard duty had -11 to their initial Listen checks to hear the ogres approaching as quietly as they could).
To flesh things out a bit, the ogres weren't expending many resources plundering the tombs, which were free of threats for the most part. They lost an ogre to ghosts on the first day, and since then they've simply avoided that particular tomb (the largest). Thus, the leader had his full spell capacity. In contrast, the party wizard was tapped on his 3rd-level damage spells, except for one fireball which he nailed the leader with at the opening of hostilities. Then he missed the ogre leader (touch AC 10) with scorching ray - twice. Had those spells landed, combined with the heat metal and produce flame spells the 4th-level druid had nailed the leader with, the fight may have had a different outcome. There was also the fact that the dwarven fighter/ranger was fully dressed in plate armor, ready to kill his favored enemy with his +1 flametouched iron dwarven waraxe, but unable to free himself from the entangled area for the entire fight. Likewise, the bard/fighter/unfettered had no luck getting free at all. The paladin, though eventually able to free himself, was unarmored and 3rd-level, and became ogre fodder quickly on his own. The rogue and faen (spryte) druid could have both fled to fight another day, and indeed were on the verge. But they didn't. They stayed long past the point when the others were doomed, and so they died too.
Amusingly, the new party has two clerics and a favored soul. The old party had none.
To flesh things out a bit, the ogres weren't expending many resources plundering the tombs, which were free of threats for the most part. They lost an ogre to ghosts on the first day, and since then they've simply avoided that particular tomb (the largest). Thus, the leader had his full spell capacity. In contrast, the party wizard was tapped on his 3rd-level damage spells, except for one fireball which he nailed the leader with at the opening of hostilities. Then he missed the ogre leader (touch AC 10) with scorching ray - twice. Had those spells landed, combined with the heat metal and produce flame spells the 4th-level druid had nailed the leader with, the fight may have had a different outcome. There was also the fact that the dwarven fighter/ranger was fully dressed in plate armor, ready to kill his favored enemy with his +1 flametouched iron dwarven waraxe, but unable to free himself from the entangled area for the entire fight. Likewise, the bard/fighter/unfettered had no luck getting free at all. The paladin, though eventually able to free himself, was unarmored and 3rd-level, and became ogre fodder quickly on his own. The rogue and faen (spryte) druid could have both fled to fight another day, and indeed were on the verge. But they didn't. They stayed long past the point when the others were doomed, and so they died too.
Amusingly, the new party has two clerics and a favored soul. The old party had none.
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Doug McCrae
Legend
ForceUser said the group was 3rd-5th level. It's entirely possible they didn't even have one 5th level wizard, so no fireball, making the ogres an extremely tough proposition even if the party had the element of surprise.Raven Crowking said:
d4
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i totally agree with you, and i think it works both ways. if the players all enjoy a particular style of gaming that the current GM is not comfortable with, perhaps he should be the one to step down to make room for someone else.Raven Crowking said:
a while back i was playing in a death-heavy, rat-bastard GM kind of game, which is definitely not my style. i wasn't having much fun, especially after a near-TPK. so i announced i was leaving the campaign. i suggested that i might like to start my own game, something more in-line with the style of gaming i enjoy.
i ended up getting at least 3/4 of the other players to follow me. it might sound mean of me to "steal" the other GM's players. but that campaign i ran was one of the most fun i've ever done, and the players all said that they had a blast and it was much more fun for them than the old campaign under the other GM. really, the only one who missed out was the other GM who refused to alter his GMing style to better fit his players.
spider_minion
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I agree with what ForceUser did. Though TPK's are definately a setback, if the players know the DM isn't going easy on them, their future accomplishments will be much more meaningful. I suppose I would have given a warning to the high-wisdom or high-survival PCs, and maybe let one escape, but that's about it.
Personally, I like scenarios that force the players to think and plan ahead. Creatively overcoming challanges is quite fun. If your players are just hack-n-slashers though, you probably should lower your expectations.
Personally, I like scenarios that force the players to think and plan ahead. Creatively overcoming challanges is quite fun. If your players are just hack-n-slashers though, you probably should lower your expectations.
Lord Judas
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I didnt read each post in it's fullest, so If Im repeating, I apologize.
This encounter shows the big difference between attacking or being attacked, or as Sun Tzu would call it "who was the initiative". Its like in my current campaign, theres a reocurring evil wizard named "Savio". He is the BBEG's right-hand man, like Destro of GI-JOE. Anyhow, even though Savio has all the cool lines, the party routinely shows up and Kicks his ass with a fury, because they are always on the attack.
Then there was Alundra...she was in the Cabal of Evil mages as well. The BBEG killed her lover becaues of her and Savio's failures. This set her on a path of revenge. She bombed the parties house (Fireball) at night as an attention getter. When they came out to meet her, she was fully buffed (Sadism, Abyssal Might, etc), shielded, and Fly. Half the party was down at the end or right next to it. One person was sent to Acheron via Prismatic Spray, but they Won. She had NO ITEMS, just her spells and preperation (In fact, she was Nude at the time showing off her evil tattoos)
Initiative...It makes all the difference.
This encounter shows the big difference between attacking or being attacked, or as Sun Tzu would call it "who was the initiative". Its like in my current campaign, theres a reocurring evil wizard named "Savio". He is the BBEG's right-hand man, like Destro of GI-JOE. Anyhow, even though Savio has all the cool lines, the party routinely shows up and Kicks his ass with a fury, because they are always on the attack.
Then there was Alundra...she was in the Cabal of Evil mages as well. The BBEG killed her lover becaues of her and Savio's failures. This set her on a path of revenge. She bombed the parties house (Fireball) at night as an attention getter. When they came out to meet her, she was fully buffed (Sadism, Abyssal Might, etc), shielded, and Fly. Half the party was down at the end or right next to it. One person was sent to Acheron via Prismatic Spray, but they Won. She had NO ITEMS, just her spells and preperation (In fact, she was Nude at the time showing off her evil tattoos)
Initiative...It makes all the difference.
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