Anti-feats?

[I'm A Banana]

Gaining RP benefit/hinderences is a good use for them.

Magic Items with "quirks" is a GREAT idea (consider it yoinked. ).

Using them without gianing advantages is also perfectly okay.

I'm capable of saying "no," but it's hard when the rules support it. The rules should probably (IMHO) be the reference of things you can do no matter your DM. Going beyond the rules requires some OK-ing/Veto Power, but the rules themselves should present a well-balanced and fair base to go from (IMHO, again).

I'm not a fan of an advantage/disadvantage system at all. I went through this debate with a bunch of people while we were trying to convert something from 2e into 3e, and I still stand by my original logic. 2e was much more concerned with "realistically" limiting what you could to with a power. The Kits showed the abusability of an advantage/disadvantage system. 3e is "once you choose this power instead of a different one, you're good to go." More concerned with what your character *can* do rather than what they *can't*.

 

[Zappo]

I have yet to see a single system that implements disadvantages without completely destroying game balance. In all systems with disadvantages that I've played, they were THE way to powergaming. Since d20 was designed to manage balance as "automatically" as possible so as to leave the DM free to do more interesting things, I can easily see why the designers avoided them.

The alternative of course are disadvantages that don't let you buy any advantage in return. They wouldn't be much used, though, I guess.

 

[Conaill]

I miss my paraplegic blind deaf mute with 400 skill points in Guns.

Poor GURPS. I loved every game I played in it, but hated the System.

From the sound of it, you should be blaming your GM, not the system! Standard GURPS characters can take up to 40 points in disadvantages. Even just Bad Sight is 25 points (in a tech level where it can't be corrected). I believe Blind is something like 40 or 50. Paraplegic is 35 points. Mute is probably something along the same lines.

In several years of playing GURPS one or two times a week, I have *never* seen anyone play a blind or paraplegic character, and a mute one only once.

 

[Vaxalon]

The alternative of course are disadvantages that don't let you buy any advantage in return. They wouldn't be much used, though, I guess.

That's the way I run it.

"Hey, Mr. Iron DM sir, can I play a character who's blind?"

"Why would you want to do that?"

"Oh, for the roleplaying, of course! I am looking forward to figuring out how to overcome the handicap in a fantasy world."

"Very well, you may."

"Good! Okay, so what can I get in exchange?"

"In exchange?"

"Yeah, to balance out the character."

"Nothing."

"What?"

"Nothing."

"That sucks."

"No it doesn't. It's wonderful."

 

[Ravellion]

A smei-recent (within the last year I guess) Dragon had somthing similar - the advantages however, were already factored in. For instance it had a casanova trait that greatly increased your dealings with the opposite sex, but hindered dealings with the same sex (Jealousy)

Rav

 

[LostSoul]

What if you had requirements that mirrored the same abilities that it penalized?

Such as a penalty to hit or damage requireing 15+ Str.

Or a Hideous disadvantage requireing 15+ Cha.

That might balance things out - because to get the bonus from the disadvantage, you have to hurt something that you're already good at.

 

[Jeph]

But it wouldn't really make sense. In order to be hideously ugly, you need to have charisma 15+? WTF?!?

 

[Mallus]

I have yet to see a single system that implements disadvantages without completely destroying game balance. In all systems with disadvantages that I've played, they were THE way to powergaming.

Yeah, I can't see this working in D20.... Disadvantages work fine in Champions where characters are created on a point-buy system. Tradional "super" characters were built out of 200 pts. 100 of which were "free" and up to another 100 from disadvantages. But that was part of the basic mechanics of the system.

It would have been nice if WotC had played around with a disadvantage system and thrown it in as an optional rule. While they can --easily-- be abused, they also can create player characters whose personalties and future plot hooks are 'embedded' into the game mechanics {which some people like and some don't, I guess. I personally like my roles and rules intertwined}.

 

[hong]

In general I'm reading this thread and all I take fromit is that if your DM is a complete and utter milksop of course you can abuse any drawback system.

The key is the miraculous ability of the DM (with a spine) to suggest alternative, say no, or in extreme cases, tear up your chaarcter sheet, soak the paper ribbons in gasoline and set fire to your PHB while singing showtunes.

Yes, but Tiama'at, none of us have as big a penis as you.

(Long time no see! What brings you to ENWorld, T-apostrophe?)

 

[Tiama'at]

Yeah, I can't see this working in D20.... Disadvantages work fine in Champions where characters are created on a point-buy system. Tradional "super" characters were built out of 200 pts. 100 of which were "free" and up to another 100 from disadvantages. But that was part of the basic mechanics of the system.

BESM (Tri-Stat) also is a good system for balanced drawbacks, since, as a rule, you get less points from drawbacks than benefits cost (so a mute might get you 1-2 points, but that won't buy you very much).