Anti-first-round-nuke feats

[hong]

Just a way to get around the general tendency in D&D fights to open with your biggest shot. The benefits are big, but either wear off over time or only work once per encounter. The prereqs are light on feats and class abilities, so as not to limit their applicability. There's some overlap with the luck feats in Comp Scoundrel, but those are X/day abilities generally.

All of these names obviously need work.


Defense Pool

Prereqs: 12th level

At the start of an encounter, you gain an insight bonus equal to 5 + half your HD/level to AC and saves (maximum +15). The bonus lasts for the duration of the encounter, except that each round in which you make a save or are subjected to an attack, it decreases by 1d6 at the start of your next turn. The bonus cannot drop below 0.


Instantaneous Resistance

Prereqs: Con 15, Wis 15, either Great Fort or Iron Will, either base Fort or Will save +10

You gain SR 35 and a +10 insight bonus to saving throws until the start of your next turn. You can use this ability once per encounter. You can declare the use of this feat even when flat-footed or it's not your turn, in response to somebody else's action.


Instantaneous Defense

Prereqs: Dex 15, Wis 15, Dodge, BAB +8

You gain a +20 insight bonus to AC until the start of your next turn. You can use this ability once per encounter. You can declare the use of this feat even when flat-footed or it's not your turn, in response to somebody else's action.


Evade Magic

Prereqs: 8th level, Either Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes or Great Fortitude

You automatically succeed on the next saving throw you make, as if you had rolled a natural 20. You can declare the use of this feat even when flat-footed or it's not your turn, in response to somebody else's action.


EDIT: remembered that immediate actions can't be used when flat-footed

 

[Storyteller01]

They seem awfully powerful for feats, even with the one time bonus.


If it helps, I prefer the Quint Halflings 'Take Cover!' feat. Prereqs are alertness and dodge. If you're within 10 ft of decent cover, you gain evasion (or inproved evasion if you already have it).

 

[hong]

Yeah, they're strong. The idea is that they render you (almost) immune to the wizard's disintegrate, or the barb whaling on you for 1 round, or the rogue getting sneak attack while flat-footed. That doesn't stop the wiz casting another disintegrate, the barb whaling on you for another round, or the rogue flanking. But if it delays the end for at least a round, or causes people to use weaker attacks first to use up the protection, then it's worked.

Maybe upping the prereqs, so these feats appear at high levels, would be a way of addressing the power? Instakill stuff is generally a problem only at level 10+ anyway.

The best fix is probably a fundamental rejig of the whole ruleset. Lord Tirian had an idea along these lines: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=190211

 

[Corsair]

So then everyone takes these feats, and round 1 just becomes worthless, and you have the same "problem" round 2.

 

[hong]

So then everyone takes these feats, and round 1 just becomes worthless, and you have the same "problem" round 2.

Ah, but in round 2 you're no longer flat-footed. Which makes a big difference for tactics that rely on catching you with your pants down. Some builds are also limited in how many big guns they have per fight (spells, maneuvers).

Further, round 1 is only worthless if people spend the actions to bust through the defenses, which is still an extra round of gaming action. And that means these feats are doing their job, as stated above.

But extra unpredictability in terms of how much defense is provided might be a good thing. The first feat does this (you don't know exactly when the bonus runs out) but the others are more predictable. Maybe tie the #uses per encounter to some other stat?

 

[Melayl]

Ah, but in round 2 you're no longer flat-footed. Which makes a big difference for tactics that rely on catching you with your pants down. Some builds are also limited in how many big guns they have per fight (spells, maneuvers).

So, instead of these feats, why not just eliminate the flat-footed rule? (my group has already done so, except in cases of surprise)

 

[hong]

So, instead of these feats, why not just eliminate the flat-footed rule? (my group has already done so, except in cases of surprise)

Flat-footedness is only part of it. As I've said elsewhere and others have noted as well, there is very little incentive in the D&D combat system for characters not to use their biggest attack as soon as possible. That might be a sneak attack, an instakill spell, barbarian rage, pounce/full attack, maneuver (for Bo9S classes), whatever. From then, things generally ramp down in intensity as spells run out, buffs wear off, hit points get drained, etc. Contrast this to fights in books or movies, which generally start small and ramp up in intensity until you reach the climax.

The ideal way to fix this is to change the underlying system, but that's too much work. So I'm looking at ad-hoc ways to address the problem.

Other ways might be attacks that are high intensity but have bad side-effects:
- Spell that lets you cast 3 spells simultaneously, afterwards you're dazed 1 round and staggered for the rest of the encounter
- Super attack with bonuses to hit/damage, staggered and exhausted afterwards

Or an attack that needs building up:
- Attack the same foe for 3 rounds, get a big bonus on 4th round

 

[Technik4]

Evade Magic

Prereqs: 8th level, Either Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes or Great Fortitude

You automatically succeed on the next saving throw you make, as if you had rolled a natural 20. You can declare the use of this feat even when flat-footed or it's not your turn, in response to somebody else's action.

This one needs a "x times per day", or "once per encounter" clause.

I think they are generally too powerful, even for higher-level characters. You are taking a feat that potentially negates other characters' feats (Improved Initiative), stats (Dex mainly), and abilities (Sneak Attack). Basically these feats just scream "Nerf the Rogue!". Except the one that grants a free saving throw, that screams "Nerf the Wizard!".

I will admit that I haven't played much at or above 10th level, however.

 

[FireLance]

Not sure how practical this is to implement, but I've toyed with the idea of requiring characters to "build up" to their most powerful attacks.

In the first round of combat, you are at 25% effectiveness: 25% of BAB, 25% of caster/manifestor/initiator level, you can only cast spells/use abilities/use feats available to you based on your reduced BAB/caster level, etc.

In the second round of combat, you are at 50% effectiveness, in the 3rd round of combat, you are at 75% effectiveness, and from the 4th round onwards, anything goes.

AC, hit points, saving throws, and skill checks are not affected by this.

 

[hong]

This one needs a "x times per day", or "once per encounter" clause.

Yeah, that one should be 1/encounter like the rest.

I think they are generally too powerful, even for higher-level characters. You are taking a feat that potentially negates other characters' feats (Improved Initiative), stats (Dex mainly), and abilities (Sneak Attack). Basically these feats just scream "Nerf the Rogue!". Except the one that grants a free saving throw, that screams "Nerf the Wizard!".

I will admit that I haven't played much at or above 10th level, however.

IME, high-level play (15th+) often tends to boil down to whoever goes first. And it's very true that these feats will have the greatest impact on first-strike builds. That's the point of having them, really.

Besides, the rogue can still sneak attack: flank with someone else, have invisibility on, or hide/snipe from range. Similarly, the wiz can open up with smaller spells, force the other guy to spend their 1-use defenses, and save the disintegrate for last. Heck, they could just cast 2 disintegrates....