D&D 5E Anticlimactic Boss Fights

[Tales and Chronicles]

There's always the option to use Disintegration beam and Telekinesis beam to cause either a cave in on the PCs or break the ground around them to make them fall in a pit. Or throw stuff at them.

IIRC the Darkness zone isnt very large, so just throw Large object at them; that'll teach them to bundle up in a small zone.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Last night, three of my players’ 14th-level PCs went up against a death tyrant in its lair.

They quickly discovered its weakness. Without the antimagic cone that a living beholder would have, the death tyrant had no way to get the PCs to stop turtling inside the warlock’s sphere of darkness, from which she could snipe the tyrant with impunity.

I had given the tyrant the Alert feat, so the warlock didn’t get advantage on her attacks, but with three attacks per round and a minimum of 11 damage with each eldritch blast thanks to Agonizing Blast and Hexblade’s Curse, she was trashing the tyrant while it could do nothing in return.

Why? Because all the tyrant really has is its eye rays, all of which require line of sight. Its three lair actions weren’t of much use either.

Yes, it had a horde of 40 zombies as backup, but the cleric happened to position his dawn spell by the tunnels the zombies came from. The zombies didn’t stand a chance.

What was supposed to be the epic big boss fight of the dungeon turned into a pretty one-sided affair. Halaster wasn’t happy so he threw in another monster with blindsight to shake things up. The PCs still won.

Have you got a similar story where the PCs happen to stumble on a boss monster’s weakness that turns what should be a deadly encounter into a triviality? And how did you deal with it?

(In this context, I appreciate having the excuse of a god-like antagonistic NPC who can interfere to raise [or lower] the difficulty on a whim.)

My advice is roll with it and sense if your players are enjoying it. I think we get hung up on the boss fight has to play out a certain way but quickly defeating the bad guy through cleverness can be very rewarding and not knowing how these fights will play out adds a lot of excitement

 

[FrozenNorth]

Disintegration ray at an angle so that a section of tunnel roof above the darkness sphere falls onto it, crushing those below.

I was going to suggest the same thing.

 

[MarkB]

Were the players disappointed? If I'd come up with the perfect combo to take down a major foe, I'd think it was awesome.

 

[cranberry]

Yea, I've experienced anti-climatic boss fights too.

My solution is to first assume upfront that my players will curb stomp the BBEG if I play them as written.

I think of the PCs strengths and abilities, and I will add/adjust the BBEGs abilities to counter their most used tactics.

In addition, I will give the BBEG additional powers and abilities not found in official materials, as well as buff up their HP and AC.

And I will always give the BBEG an escape plan.

 

[Stormonu]

For those of you suggesting that the beholder should be allowed to “fire blind”, I think that’s an easy solution but one that can potentially lead to players saying “That’s not fair! Why can’t I ‘fire blind’ with my spells that require line of sight too?”

If the PC's spells were a ray or line (scorching ray, lightning bolt and the like), sure, let them do it too.

<Edit> Of course, if you've already set the precendent this can't be done, stay consistant with the ruling. But this is something I would have allowed from the start, regardless what the rulebook might have said about it.

 

[Velderan]

I'm sure I have had a few. The dragon in the end of the Essentials box went down rather fast. I recall some skill rolls and some extra allies from somewhere, but the fighter was able to get close and go nova even without feats, but we do use flanking rules. I think I gave it an extra round to do do something, but it was not a big threat in the end.

When I ran that encounter, I had the dragon start on top of a rampart on the keep above the players so it had some time to get a breath off and make a couple passes flying by before it decided they were softened up enough to close for melee combat. It managed to down 2 of the 6 players before they took it down in about 6 rounds.

Spoiler: Divine Contention's BBEG

Not sure if you continued on to the material available on DDB, but I ran that as well and the final encounter ended up being in Ebondeath's Mausoleum for my group. I was concerned Ebondeath and the High Priest on their own would be trivial at that point to my group, so I merged the encounters into 1. The result? The wizard counterspelled everything the High Priest did and while Ebondeath did manage to possess a PC, that didn't really help much and the encounter ended with the PCs never really being in any meaningful danger. We all agreed the end of the campaign probably should have been during the siege of Leilon when they fought a possessed Claugiyliamatar and half the party was unconcious before they managed to free the dragon from Ebondeath's control.

 

[payn]

And I will always give the BBEG an escape plan.

Oh man, I had this trio of enemies that I sent against the PCs once. They had very little ability to hurt the PCs but loads of get away ability. Drove the players mad how often they ran into this group before finally finishing them. In fact, one got away and they are still mad to this day to not get the last one.

Though, I agree, a "boss" fight shouldn't be so easy for a myriad of reasons. Environment, minions, tactics, escape plans, etc... As a GM I put a ton of thought into boss fights because I expect as much from the PCs. I mean, if they say, "plans shmanzs", and just march in its going to go bad for them. Shouldn't be any different for a boss NPC.

 

[LordEntrails]

It seems a lot of responses are focusing on this one encounter, and not the broader question about things not going as planned.

It was an undead beholder defending its lair. No way was it going to run away. Even if it had run, though, the PCs would have tracked it down as they needed to kill it in order to be allowed out of that dungeon level.* So having the beholder run away would have only served to drag out the un-fun encounter even longer.

I'd have had to rule that the tyrant had an exception to Halaster's "only I can alter the shape of the dungeon" rule,

Just to close the circle on this part of the discussion:
shrug ok, just as long as all these things you say are "rules" you understand that you are the one making up those rules, you are the one who can change them if you want.

Back to the bigger question, yes it happens. It's ok that it does. Let the players celebrate if they do, or let them think this was just a part of the daily encoutners and nothing special. They don't have to know

 

[Flamestrike]

Honest question: is line of sight actually broken by darkness?

Yes it seems so says my google...

I think, as they are all rays, I'd let the tyrant just try to hit someone inside the darkness bubble, just as a bowman can shoot blindly too.. Might be a bit free interpretation but this would be rule as fun.

You can rule what you want, but then invisibility stops being the spell it is (it also totally stops many spells and effects from targeting you). Sets a rather dangerous precedent.

There was nothing stopping the Tyrant from moving in, grappling a PC and moving out (with that PC), including dragging them upwards.

What I would have done is a DM is make use of its disintegrate and TK rays (both of which can target objects) - like the pillars in the room.

I'd have it use its Telekinesis ray on a 300lb object (one of the pillars in the room perhaps, possibly after disintegrating the base of the pillar with another eye ray), dropping it on the PC's, or having it toss the object into the darkness, trying to dislodge (Shove) a PC out and into the light.

Either would likely result in a Dex save for damage for a few of them, or for one to be pushed out of the radius.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You can rule what you want,

Thanks. Now I am relieved. I thought I was going to be punished by WotC Ninjas.

 

[NotAYakk]

I mean, I'd just have the BBEG run for it if the players have built a fortress and are nearly unkillable within it.

Retreat and regroup.

 

[Quickleaf]

For those of you suggesting that the beholder should be allowed to “fire blind”, I think that’s an easy solution but one that can potentially lead to players saying “That’s not fair! Why can’t I ‘fire blind’ with my spells that require line of sight too?”

“You can, if you select ray spells like ray of frost & ray of enfeeblement. Did you select those spells?”

I know that’s a very legalistic / tongue in cheek answer (why are beholder’s Eye Rays called rays but don’t conform to common text shared by “ray of” spells? Geee), so that would be my wink wink response…

…but I think that sort of player objection really is more a play style & house rule conversation.

For example, if you have players who believe “the monsters can do what their stats say, and only what their stats say, not subject to on the fly GM whims”, then that’s something the GM needs to know and have a conversation about. Personally, if players told me that, I’d let them know I’m probably not the right GM for them.

Similarly, if a group of players expect PCs and monsters to conform to the same design rules, that’s something the GM really needs to know. Because the only time in D&D’s history where that was true was 3e, which suggests to me that that group might be better served playing 3e or Pathfinder.

Or another example would be a player wanting to run a blind PC spellcaster - does your group prefer that player need to sort thru which spell descriptions omit “a creature you can see”? Or do they prefer to give that PC some leeway? Or do they prefer for ALL casters to have some leeway when it comes to D&D’s legalese spell descriptions?

When I run for a group hasn’t had those conversations (eg. one-shots with new folks), I will often answer the “why can’t my spellcaster do xyz?” questions with “If you upcast it by so-and-so levels, I’ll allow it.” That’s a great multipurpose tool to have in your GM toolbox to keep things moving forward and defuse certain player types.

 

[DarkCrisis]

3rd ed.

Big Finale Castle.

PCs are going to face a Death Knight. I have been excited to run this combat for a week.

They roll into his chambers. The DK on his throne. I prepare to Power Word Kill one of them....

DK loses goes last in combat

First up, the Mage. Who casts Polymorph Other.

I'm not scared. DK has like 90% Magic Immunity plus really good saving throws.

Roll horribly and it gets passed the DKs magic immunity. Completely botch the saving throw as well.

Mage: "Porpoise"

POOF my DK boss fight is turned into a dolphin.

I still think about that 20 years later.

Yes DMs get scars.

 

[Umbran]

In short, if vision isn't blocked, then you have line of sight.

It isn't shooting into blindness. It is shooting into darkness.

"A heavily obscured area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely."

It literally uses that phrase - blocks vision entirely. So, no line of sight into Darkness.

 

[cbwjm]

I'd allow any spell that has an attack roll to be fired into darkness, probably also some spells like disintegrate as well since they're rays but with a save instead of an attack roll, probably to take critical hits out of the equation.

 

[Stormonu]

It isn't shooting into blindness. It is shooting into darkness.

"A heavily obscured area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely."

It literally uses that phrase - blocks vision entirely. So, no line of sight into Darkness.

You knew it was coming...

I magic missile the darkness!

 

[pukunui]

To be honest, I wasn't really looking for solutions for the specific scenario I posted. It's done and dusted. I was more just trying to start a conversation (and maybe garner some sympathy). Thanks for everyone who's posted, though! I do appreciate it.

Were the players disappointed? If I'd come up with the perfect combo to take down a major foe, I'd think it was awesome.

The one playing the darkness + Devil's Sight hexblade was pleased with himself, but the other two players agreed it was a bit anticlimactic. One of them suggested just handwaving the rest of the fight, but as I mentioned, I ultimately chose to have Halaster intervene. While his intervention brought down the darkness spell and got the PCs to stop turtling, it didn't really help the beholder overly much.

The warlock player kept insisting that if it hadn't been for that tactic, they'd have been TPKed early on, but I'm not sure, and I think that the fact that they won anyway even with Halaster's interference suggests they probably would have been fine.

 

[MarkB]

The one playing the darkness + Devil's Sight hexblade was pleased with himself, but the other two players agreed it was a bit anticlimactic. One of them suggested just handwaving the rest of the fight, but as I mentioned, I ultimately chose to have Halaster intervene. While his intervention brought down the darkness spell and got the PCs to stop turtling, it didn't really help the beholder overly much.

Yeah, while it sounds like a neat quick victory when summarised, I can see that it would get tedious just playing out the whittling down of HPs over several rounds.

I can think of one example in my own experience. When running Rime of the Frostmaiden I was frequently bamboozled by one player's use of Tasha's Mind Whip. You never appreciate the action economy so much as when you lose most of it.

In particular, when confronting the Chardalyn Dragon, it got tagged several rounds in a row and was basically just hanging in the air waiting for its breath weapon to recharge instead of using hit-and-run tactics to its best advantage. It did manage to close and focus fire on the character, but by that time it was sufficiently wounded that he lasted longer than it did.

 

[pukunui]

Yeah, while it sounds like a neat quick victory when summarised, I can see that it would get tedious just playing out the whittling down of HPs over several rounds.

Yeah, I think the fight lasted close to a full 10 rounds, and it was mostly just the warlock sniping at the beholder while the cleric maintained concentration on dawn from within the darkness. The barbarian couldn't do much because he was frightened and slowed by the beholder and couldn't make the saves until close to the very end.

I didn't include this in the OP because it wasn't particularly relevant to the point I was trying to make, but it was worth playing the fight out till the end because the barbarian did eventually manage to shake off the beholder's fear and slow effects. He then chucked a necklace of fireballs bead that killed the beholder. This was important because he happened to be possessed by the ghost of a paladin who had been killed by the beholder and needed to strike the killing blow in order to find rest, and prior to this point in the fight, it wasn't looking like the barbarian was going to be able to land that killing blow because only the warlock was doing damage and the beholder was 30 feet up in the air.

In the end, that moment made up for the slog of the preceding few rounds.

In particular, when confronting the Chardalyn Dragon, it got tagged several rounds in a row and was basically just hanging in the air waiting for its breath weapon to recharge instead of using hit-and-run tactics to its best advantage. It did manage to close and focus fire on the character, but by that time it was sufficiently wounded that he lasted longer than it did.

That reminds me of the first time I ran Legacy of the Crystal Shard. The PCs were facing off against the ice witch in Icingdeath's glacial lair, and when she animated Icingdeath's skeleton, the bard cast Tasha's hideous laughter on it. I couldn't find anywhere that said that skeletons were immune to that kind of spell, so it spent most of the fight prone on the floor silently shaking with mirth. In retrospect, it's quite funny, but I remember being rather annoyed by it at the time.