Antimagic Field vs. See Invisibility

[kcmopd1913]

Can someone give me their opinion on this as this came up in a game session (of course the GM ruled against the PC)

A PC is in a 15' hallway and has the Antimagic Field spell on him. Another PC has See Invisibility cast on himself, but is behind the PC with the Antimagic Spell and IS outside of the Antimagic Field's radius. The PC with the See Invisbility is looking down the hall past the PC with the Antimagic Field to try and find an invisible creature that is on the other side. The creature is also outside the Antimagic Field's radius. Can the PC with See Invisbility see the invisible creature through the Antimagic Field?

Now the See Invisibility Spell's Range is "Personal" and the Target is "You".

Thanks for your answers

 

[kcmopd1913]

Here are the spells for your reference. Thanks.

Antimagic Field
School abjuration; Level cleric 8, sorcerer/wizard 6
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (pinch of powdered iron or iron filings)
Range 10 ft.
Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance see text
An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The
space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects,
including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities.
Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells
within its confines.
An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used
within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it.
Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed
spell’s duration.
Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink
out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same
spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts
normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining
the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a
summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a
caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell
resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous
conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the
conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)
A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles.
Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within
the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell
has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with
magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting
(unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like
any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and
outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’
spell-like or supernatural abilities may be temporarily nullified by the
field. Dispel magic does not remove the field.
Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have
no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic
sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field.
Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.
Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier,
any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.

 

[kcmopd1913]

See Invisibility
School divination; Level bard 3, sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (talc and powdered silver)
Range personal
Target you
Duration 10 min./level (D)
You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your
range of vision, as well as any that are ethereal, as if they were
normally visible. Such creatures are visible to you as translucent
shapes, allowing you easily to discern the difference between
visible, invisible, and ethereal creatures.
The spell does not reveal the method used to obtain invisibility.
It does not reveal illusions or enable you to see through opaque
objects. It does not reveal creatures who are simply hiding,
concealed, or otherwise hard to see.
See invisibility can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

 

[Tovec]

So, let me get this straight...

Guy A has see invisibility
Guy B has anitmagic field centered on himself
Guy C has invisibility?

And they're in a hallway lined up A-B-C.

Then no, guy A can't see guy C, even though guy A is beyond the antimagic field (as is guy C) because as soon as he tries to see through the anitmagic it doesn't work. It would no more work if he had darkvision through magic, or trueseeing.

 

[kcmopd1913]

Ok here is the argument, the Antimagic Spells says "An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it."

Now since the PC with See Invisibility is not being used within it because the Target of the spell is "You" and you are outside of the radius and it's not being brought into it because your are outside of the radius, and you did not cast it into the area, why would the Antimagic Field hinder your vision?

See Invisibility "You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your range of vision, as well as any that are ethereal, as if they were normally visible."

 

[concerro]

The Antimagic field has no effect on the situation. You are not sending magic through the field. The magic is on the seer(person using see invisibility) who is not in the field, and is therefore not subjected to it. The invisible person can be seen.

 

[kcmopd1913]

Anyone else???? Remember See Invisbility has a range of " Personal".

 

[Anguish]

It really depends on how you look at the mechanics. If the person with see invisibility were instead a dragon, you'd never question the ability to see the invisible target. The dragon can "just see" stuff that's invisible, right? No magic involved. If you view see invisibility as a spell that alters the recipient so that recipient can also "just see" stuff that's invisible, they'd also have no problem. On the other hand, if you apply simulationist mechanics, and start imagining a sonar effect where light doesn't get altered by the invisible target and that see invisibility shoots out some sort of ray that does reveal the target, then there's a problem.

In the end, since the spell is a divination I'd say it modifies your ability to see such that you have knowledge you wouldn't otherwise have. You don't need magical line-of-effect any more than you would if there was a wall of force between you and the invisible target. You aren't emitting, projecting, or otherwise actively sending anything that would get blocked.

That being said, the DM's ruling is also reasonable. It's just not the one I think I'd probably come up with.

 

[bouncyhead]

I'd have to agree with Anguish. Invisibility is an illusion. The subject of a See Invisible is not affected by the illusion. I don't see a case for some kind of detecto-force passing between the observer and the observed that an anti magic field would block.

Put another way: If you (with no see invis or similar running) were to look through an anti-magic field at a figment, I would say that you see the figment. Only when B (in this example) moved the field over the figment would it be suppressed.

 

[mrbadnews]

I think it's worth mentioning that antimagic fields don't dispel anything; effects are suppressed and resume again once they leave the field. Even if See Invisibility was granting you 'magic sight beams,' they would pass right through the antimagic field (failing to detect nonmagically invisible creatures such as the invisible stalker), then emerge on the other side to detect the monster. Although it's probably a less popular opinion, I see nothing wrong with casting any spell through the field, so long as the caster and target are outside of it.