any chummers out there still play Shadowrun? (also: d20 vs SR 3ed)

[GlassJaw]

Just wondering if anyone out there still plays Shadowrun. I used to play Shadowrun 1ed and loved the setting. I haven't tried out 3ed and was debating whether or not to give it a shot or go with d20 Modern/Urban Arcana/d20 Future.

If I went with d20, I would still use the setting and background of Shadowrun (Seattle) but try to convert anything else I needed from the original Shadowrun rules (like cyberware, etc).

Any thoughts?

 

[Andrew D. Gable]

I did a big conversion of Shadowrun into D20 Modern a while ago, but lost all the files in the Great Hard Drive Crash and subsequent Buying of A New Computer. Basically, it went decently well into D20, but it just didn't have the right feel. Maybe I was too spoiled on the original SR rules. Maybe I was overwhelmed by just how much you need to convert. Now, although I don't particularly like them, I'm sticking with the original (SR3) rules.

IMHO.

I'm going to be starting an SR3 PbP here in the coming weeks, so you're welcome to lurk and follow that game.

 

[Arkhandus]

Yeah, I've been playing Shadowrun v3 a bit lately. My group plays D&D or Magic: The Gathering usually though when we meet, and we meet once or twice a week. A club at the DeVry campus I attend. Still itchin' to play my physad with an attitude, from getting his right arm fragged by a bunch of gangers and havin' to get it replaced with a boosted-strength prosthetic. Instead, I'm recently playing an elvish warrior-mage, a street-savvy elf out of Tir na nOg, with a good mix of spells for combat and recon, a trusty katana (for decapitating foes while magically invisible, of course), plus a handy AK-98 with integral mini-grenade launcher.....

I'd be interested in a PbP SR3 game! If, well, it doesn't require a community supporter account here, since I'm a poor college student who can't even afford a subscription to Dragon Magazine or Inquest Gamer right now, let alone much new RPG stuff...

 

[GlassJaw]

Basically, it went decently well into D20, but it just didn't have the right feel. Maybe I was too spoiled on the original SR rules. Maybe I was overwhelmed by just how much you need to convert. Now, although I don't particularly like them, I'm sticking with the original (SR3) rules.

This is the sort of info I'm looking for. Would you mind expanding your thougths on this a bit? I've only played 1ed Shadowrun so I'm curious as to how 3ed plays and how it compares to d20.

What was missing from the "feel" of d20? What things translate well to d20 and what doesn't? What did you end up spending a lot of time on converting? Did you use Urban Arcana as well? Do you think d20 Future would help running a Shadowrun campaign?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This is the sort of info I'm looking for. Would you mind expanding your thougths on this a bit? I've only played 1ed Shadowrun so I'm curious as to how 3ed plays and how it compares to d20.

What was missing from the "feel" of d20? What things translate well to d20 and what doesn't? What did you end up spending a lot of time on converting? Did you use Urban Arcana as well? Do you think d20 Future would help running a Shadowrun campaign?

My group also did a Shadowrun conversion (it`s still not translated to English, so, unless you´re familiar with German, ìt won`t be of use for you).

The main problems:
Handling Essence: We did it with paying Experience Points for cyberware, and if you payed to much, you suffered penalties. It has some of the shadowrun implied feel (like to much cyberware is bad for you, which in the rules, it actually isn`t, unless your essence drops to 0), but it might lack on other areas.
Handling Magic: Shadowrun magic is vastly different from regular D&D magic. Its much more formulistic, which makes creating spells easier, but the whole drain thing isn´t easy, at least if you want it balanced. It´s especially difficult to retain the original Shadowrun flavour. In d20 SR, you will wonder why Trolls are suddenly better spellcasters than, say, elves, if you let drain cause hp damage.
Lethality: Even with the D20 Modern rules of Massive Damage Threshold, you won´t have the potential lethality of Shadowrun. Another problem is also tied to the magic system: If a manabolt deals hp damage, a troll or orc still has better chances to survive it than someone with a good will save. In the orignal SR, when you encountered a heavily armored high constitution enemy, you zapped him with Manabolt. In D20, this doesn´t work, at least not really.
(Currently, I am considering making a small change: mana spells use wisdom/will saves for massive damage purposes, as does astral combat.)

We don´t play SR often these days (regardless of 3rd edition or SR D20), so I cannot comment much more. Maybe SR D20 will come up again, and there is even a possiblity for a Shadowrun 3.0 (one of the players bought the new Shadows over Europe Sourcebook)
If you are not familiar with the 3rd Edition of Shadowrun, be warned: It has several flaws - nothing that couldn`t be houseruled away, but you need some experience to notice them...

 

[GlassJaw]

The main problems:

Well it seems that there are differences in the feel of the campaign between Shadowrun and d20. On the flip side, is there anything that d20 handles better than Shadowrun?

Also, am I correct in saying that a d20 campaign of this type requires cutting and pasting material from various sources (Modern, Urban Arcana, maybe Future, etc) as well as converting existing Shadowrun stuff? I'm just concerned that a d20 Shadowrun campaign would require buying a few books and spending a fair amount of time updating and converting whereas you could get started in Shadowrun by just buying the core rulebook.

Saving time and money when setting up a campaign are important considerations in addition to the system itself.

 

[Davelozzi]

Do you think d20 Future would help running a Shadowrun campaign?

I'm only loosely familar with the Shadowrun rules so I can't really say much about the pros and cons of both systems, but as for d20 Future, it has a chapter on cyberware that might be helpful. It seemed pretty good when I read it yesterday, though I haven't tried it in play and don't know how close it would be to Shadowrun's take on it. The way they handle the too much cyberware issue is that you can have 1 + your Con bonus in piece of cyberware, and more than that and you suffer a negative level until one or more pieces are removed. But some of the more minor pieces of cyberware don't count towards this limit.

 

[Jazz]

I would not go with D20 on a Shadowrun campaign. The feel of D20 is totally different from the feel of Shadowrun. Magic, the matrix, cyberware, combat, everything works on a total different way and you will not be able to get the feel and lethality of the game.
The best thing to do is buy youself a copy of the third edition of Shadowrun and go with it. I have gamemastered shadowrun for about 7 years. We used the second edition for 6 years and were using lots of the 3rd edition rules on the last year of the campaign. The 3rd edition rulebook is a really solid one with exceptional rules. They will handle everything you need to start your campaign. Later, you can buy some soucebooks like Man and machine and Magic in the shadow to enhance your game. If you are gonna run a campaign in north america you can also buy Shadows of North America. It will give you lots of info in the cities and the corporations. I am a huge fan of the Shadowrun game and I just stopped playing it because I was a little burned out of ideas after all these years game mastering it. Nowadays I am gming a Star Wars campaign and my group and I are having a greatime. But I really intend on gming Shadowrun again in a not so distant future.
Even if you do not use the 3rd edition rulebook in your campaign I would suggest you to buy it to use as a sourcebook for the setting. But, as I told you, you will not regret using its own system in the game, unles you are totaly against dice pools.

Best regards and good luck with your campaign. I am sure the players will love it.

Jazz

 

[GlassJaw]

Thanks for the info Jazz. Great stuff. Seems like you are the new resident expert on Shadowrun in here.

I am a huge fan of the Shadowrun game and I just stopped playing it because I was a little burned out of ideas after all these years game mastering it

I am too but for us it was mostly the rules that we got frustrated with. The setting itself was amazing. No other I've played had so much flavor and role-playing possibilities, even for newbies. Sometimes in D&D, it will take some players a while to come out of their shell. Not so in SR. Once you start saying "chummer" a few times and spray some lead, you're hooked. To this day we still say chummer to each other once in a while.

Later, you can buy some soucebooks like Man and machine and Magic in the shadow to enhance your game. If you are gonna run a campaign in north america you can also buy Shadows of North America. It will give you lots of info in the cities and the corporations

I have quite a few of the older books but I'm sure they are obsolete now (Grimoire, Virtual Realities, Street Samurai Catalogue, etc). What about the sourcebooks like the Seattle Sourcebook, NA Guide to North America, Tir Na Nog, etc? Are they still usable?

How is the New Seattle Sourcebook?

The 3rd edition rulebook is a really solid one with exceptional rules

If you are not familiar with the 3rd Edition of Shadowrun, be warned: It has several flaws - nothing that couldn`t be houseruled away, but you need some experience to notice them...

So dare I ask about these "flaws"? I though the 3ed was supposed to fix most of the major issues. Are these things covered in the FAQ or errata?

I have gamemastered shadowrun for about 7 years

I would love to hear about some of yoru campaign arcs and plotlines, if possible. Thanks again!

 

[Dalin the Monk]

I toyed with a d20 conversion for a long time... especially magic. The best I could come up with to simulate drain was to have spells cause attribute damage to the caster (as I'm typing this, I think negative levels would work too)