Any CRPGs dynamically generating story?

[Rangoric]

I was under the impression that MMORPGs just have a lot of scripted quests, not dynamically generated story. TES:Morrowind / TES:Oblivion has as many as I could want of those - I was under the impression MMORPGs have the same model, but with a bunch of jerk non-NPCs running around

Are there MMORPGs that are dynamically generating story?

Ryzom is slightly player made, and a bit Dynamic. But I haven't played it in a long time so I don't know exactly how its turned out. Maybe checking that out might be interesting.

 

[Cergorach]

What about the old SSI D&D game "Dungeon Hack"?
Or the Bioware Neverwinter Nights module "Infinite Dungeons"?

Or is that random dungeon generation and not 'dynamic' story generation?

 

[jdrakeh]

Are there MMORPGs that are dynamically generating story?

Ultima Online had (circa 2000) a player-influenced storyline prior to the Felucca/Trammel split, in which various BBEGs marched on certain towns/regions throughout the world. The BBEGs were actually controlled by real people working for OSI at the time, with the armies being programmed baddies designed to infiltrate/hold certain tactical vantage points.

I (my character) was present at the seige and subsequent taking of Trinsic by the Lich Lord, as well as the player-oranized battle to win said city back. Really, this was the most ambitious level of dynamic story I have ever seen in an MMORPG. I imagine that the whole event (given that it lasted nearly a month) was quite resource intensive.

I'm not certain that anybody has done something quite so involved since (though I admit, I'm not up on current MMORPGs).

 

[Bront]

Ultima Online had (circa 2000) a player-influenced storyline prior to the Felucca/Trammel split, in which various BBEGs marched on certain towns/regions throughout the world. The BBEGs were actually controlled by real people working for OSI at the time, with the armies being programmed baddies designed to infiltrate/hold certain tactical vantage points.

I (my character) was present at the seige and subsequent taking of Trinsic by the Lich Lord, as well as the player-oranized battle to win said city back. Really, this was the most ambitious level of dynamic story I have ever seen in an MMORPG. I imagine that the whole event (given that it lasted nearly a month) was quite resource intensive.

I'm not certain that anybody has done something quite so involved since (though I admit, I'm not up on current MMORPGs).

Invasions and other issues like that happened regularly in Dragonrealms, a text MUD. But outside of events like that, the world was pretty static.

Still, I remember hudling bodies in a church to be raised while an invasion was going on, after I realized I wasn't powerful enough to help fight at the time. I helped with first aid and body dragging because I was at least resiliant enough to withstand some of the siege weapons (if they didn't hit me directly). I remember the guild leader (A PC contracted by a NPC to guard the city and run the guild, which was a guard for the city) negotiating for safe passage out of town for all the dead and injured, and eventualy being allowed to make a run to the boat and sail off for a while.

Turns out if was a test of power by an evil baddy, who left a few days later, and was preparing to launch a strike against another town later.

 

[J Arcane]

Ultima Online had (circa 2000) a player-influenced storyline prior to the Felucca/Trammel split, in which various BBEGs marched on certain towns/regions throughout the world. The BBEGs were actually controlled by real people working for OSI at the time, with the armies being programmed baddies designed to infiltrate/hold certain tactical vantage points.

I (my character) was present at the seige and subsequent taking of Trinsic by the Lich Lord, as well as the player-oranized battle to win said city back. Really, this was the most ambitious level of dynamic story I have ever seen in an MMORPG. I imagine that the whole event (given that it lasted nearly a month) was quite resource intensive.

I'm not certain that anybody has done something quite so involved since (though I admit, I'm not up on current MMORPGs).

Ryzom does a LOT of GM-run events, in fact, it's pretty much the lion's share of the content, which has led to criticism from some sectors, as if you're not getting involved in the events, there's not as much really going on.

EVE does some too, but no one cares, because they're all rigged in favor of the GMs' buddies and guildmates.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I think the major difficulty in developing a game with a dynamic story is two-fold.

First, it would need dynamic level-design as well to avoid becoming stale. I'm not a programmer, but that seems like it would be vastly more difficult than it would first appear. Adding another dynamic system on top of it might very well be too much - and perhaps that's why we haven't seen it done.

Second, and I think more importantly, is that it's fairly difficult making a dynamic story flow organically. You can't just take random events and string them together, because that creates an extremely disjointed narrative. You could take random stories and apply them to random people, but in the end that becomes stale, as you know how the story ends through knowing where it begins. It also depersonalizes the character for the sake of the story. You might be able to have a branching story, but that becomes extremely time-intensive, since as a writer you would have to write a seperate story for each branch to flow organically.

I think that because of both of these reasons, there aren't many games of the type you're looking for, nor do I think that there will be.

 

[trancejeremy]

Chris Crawford has been working on something like this.

http://www.storytron.com/

Not really CRPGs, though.

But here, this is what he's after

Storytronics - Lots of Both Story and Interactivity

Even though Storytronics has the strengths of both the previously described methods, and the weaknesses of neither, it is not "the best of both worlds" - it is a radically new paradigm that redefines everything. The basic concept in Storytronics is that interactive storytelling is first an interactive experience - that is, it is not an experience where the player's main role is to read text or watch footage, sometimes getting the attractive opportunity to "choose the lesser of two evils". It is an experience where the player has volition, and is at liberty not merely to choose between narrative possibilities, but to behave in whichever way he or she likes, thus freely directing the course of the drama. The computer-controlled characters, likewise, behave according to their unique personalities, reacting dynamically to the player's behavior.

This is made possible using the concept of the Verb. Storytronics uses Verbs to define what may happen in interactive storytelling. Each Verb represents one possible dramatic action, like a kiss, a demand, or an advice. Once a Verb has been defined, it may be used indefinitely. For example, once a single Verb Kiss is defined, any character will be able to kiss any other. Depending on the context and the Adverb used, this kiss could also mean several different things, from a friendly greeting to a statement of reverence to a passionate lovemaking, or even a murderous act (think Judas). When more than a thousand Verbs are used together, the richness of possible behaviors stretches across horizons. When each Verb also defines what kinds of consequences it has and what reactions it may warrant, these possibilities can be organized into complex cause-and-effect relationships that allow the interaction to maintain a coherent and narrative form, no matter how adventurous the player's behavior.

Bear in mind, he's probably spent the last 20 years working on it, and he's basically a genius. So it's harder than it seems.

 

[Rangoric]

I think the major difficulty in developing a game with a dynamic story is two-fold.

First, it would need dynamic level-design as well to avoid becoming stale. I'm not a programmer, but that seems like it would be vastly more difficult than it would first appear. Adding another dynamic system on top of it might very well be too much - and perhaps that's why we haven't seen it done.

Second, and I think more importantly, is that it's fairly difficult making a dynamic story flow organically. You can't just take random events and string them together, because that creates an extremely disjointed narrative. You could take random stories and apply them to random people, but in the end that becomes stale, as you know how the story ends through knowing where it begins. It also depersonalizes the character for the sake of the story. You might be able to have a branching story, but that becomes extremely time-intensive, since as a writer you would have to write a seperate story for each branch to flow organically.

I think that because of both of these reasons, there aren't many games of the type you're looking for, nor do I think that there will be.

Bear in mind he isn't really looking for Random just Dynamic.

As in he wants more then just a "free form" style game like Morrowind. He wants something like Morrowind but it goes more along with what it is that he choses to do. Like KotoR II with many, many, many more branches and possibilities.

The main problem with most current games is that while it may have branching storylines, those branches are really rigid.

Oddly enough I think a good example of what he wants is something that works out like Axis and Allies. it all starts at one spot but depending on how it plays out things change and the scenario changes. With more add-ons it can get crazy with Germany with nukes, russia chased into africa and the USA taking over Asia slowly from Japan that retreated onto the mainland.

 

[trancejeremy]

Back in the old days, I was an external beta tester for Daggerfall for a few months (this was almost pre-internet, they had a special forum on Compuserve). The initial design for that, or at least what the designer wanted to do, had more of a dynamic storyline (and much more intelligent NPCs). (He played a lot of D&D)

But I guess it was too ambitious, and they couldn't implement it (they had trouble enough with the graphics engine, which I guess was fairly cutting edge for the time, 3d before 3d cards). And then they dumped the designer and used the ex-TSR guy. And basically why all the game have basically played the same as the first in the series, Arena. And then they kicked me out. (long story).

 

[Threedub]

Invasions and other issues like that happened regularly in Dragonrealms

The Gorbesh invasion was very tough. But except for major world changing events that occasionally destroyed a village or put a few new areas up--the non-PC world didn't change much.