Any DM's not allowing Spiked Chains?

[Magesmiley]

I allow the spiked chain in my games. A spiked chain monkey is no more broken than the uber-archery specialist from what I've seen.

The biggest issue that most people have with the chain is its synergy with tripping - its extremely effective at tripping, especially in the hands of a character made to do so. I think that this is more due to Improved Trip being slightly overpowered than with the chain being so. Eliminating the free attack you get with Improved Trip and leaving the bonus would probably cure this.

A secondary issue is that I've seen people misplay the AoO received when a character stands up from being prone - the AoO occurs before the character actually stands up - you can't make a trip attack on the AoO to keep a character prone when they're standing up (readying an action works, but that's a different subject).

And another issue I've seen complained about is an enlarged chain wielder who clears a horde of smaller creatures by using great cleave and power attack together. So? A fireball is just as effective at clearing the area, and easier to pull off.

One area I'd probably agree is somewhat broken is a corrolary to the last item - cleaving on AoOs, especially when the chain character is enlarged and has Combat Reflexes. But again, this is more an issue with the Cleave rules than with the chain.

So, short and sweet - I really don't think the chain itself is all that out of whack.

 

[Nail]

I never said I was trying to balance it. I was trying to simulate it.

Hmmmm. That may be true, but the result isn't simulation. It's squashing the concept completely.

If that's your goal, why not just come out and say it?

For example: I dislike certain parts of the 3.xe system. So I removed them.....rather than appearing to allow them, but piling on the penalties.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Interesting link. I ignored that product out of hand because it has prestige classes in it, which I deplore. But I love at least the concept of Tactical feats (although few if any have been well done), and if thier is some crunch in the book I could rearrange into tactical feats for the end of weapon specific feat chains it might make it worth looking into.

I originally bought it because although it is touted as prestige classes, each prestige class level ability is a manouevre, and can easily be transformed into a feat (there is even a suggested feat called Master of Arms which gains you a relevant manouvre the first time you take it, and then two manouvres each subsequent time you take it).

It is nice that there are a number of manouvres specifically for different two weapon styles

 

[Plane Sailing]

(my emphasis) What? Unlike spellcasting, fantastic creatures of mythology, and feats of super-human athleticism?

Legildur, this is essentially trolling. Please don't do it again. If you have any questions about this please feel free to email me.

 

[phindar]

2. It does everything any other weapon can do. It has reach. It can attack up close. It is finesseable. It is two-handed. It can trip. It gets the disarm bonus. So it's basically all other weapons rolled into one.

This was my main complaint with the weapon. Some ideas I had for fixing it was to make the weapon threaten at reach or adjacent, and require a move action to switch between the two. As for the tripping and disarming, I found for my purposes, it was easier to fix the tripping/disarming rules than the chain. As for being Finesseable, I'm a big fan of opening Finesse up to more weapons (dex based melee fighters have a hard enough time as it is).

Other than that, it does take a feat to wield and it doesn't have great damage, so it doesn't offend me that much. (I'm willing to take the leap of imagination that says it can be used effectively as a weapon; its a fantasy game.)

 

[Greg K]

Does anybody play a fighter in your game? How do your fighters cope with losses of several of the things that let them be even slightly competitive with spellcasters?

they don't need spiked chains, orgosh's, mercurial weapons, or alchemical equipment to remain effective

Edit: Let me rephrase that. By RAW, those items are not going to make the fighter any more competitive at higher levels. And, as for my campaign, I have taken a number of steps to ensure that fighters remain competitive including taking a nerf bat to the full spellcasters to reflect how I want them to be in the setting and also ensure the remain more balanced

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

In any game I control, no spiked chains. It's not because I think that they're too powerful--IMO, all of the balance problems with the spiked chain come from the Exotic Weapon Master Prestige class and it's ludicrous flurry of strikes ability that it grants only to spiked chains and exotic double weapons. Most of the people I know whose characters wield spiked chains for power reasons do it because it's the only way in the core rules+four completes+races books to get that extra attack with a two handed, power attackable weapon that isn't one of the exotic double weapons. If the exotic weapon master class had that ability available for an ordinary greatsword, they'd use that instead.

Like most others who object to the weapon itself, however, I object to its aesthetics. It's a ludicrous weapon that doesn't fit with the degree of verisimilitude I want in my games and clashes with the fantasy (rather than dungeonpunk) aesthetic. Anime aesthetics and a lot of other dungeonpunk aesthetics aren't that bad, but spiked chains--YUCK!

 

[Legildur]

Legildur, this is essentially trolling. Please don't do it again. If you have any questions about this please feel free to email me.

Seriously??? If that is the case, then I apologise. Certainly that wasn't my intention. Maybe if I had of phrased the question with less incredulity, say "Do other elements of your game D&D have problems due to 'conceptual reasons'? I mean the whole game is fantasy roleplay and contains many conceptually unbelievable issues, such as spell casting, feats of super-human athleticsm, intelligent magical items etc. I'd be curious to know why the spiked chain attracts special attention in your game."

I think Celebrim answered my original question, and I certainly haven't 'gone after him' on it, so based on that, I wouldn't have thought that it would have been classified as 'trolling'. But, you live and learn.

 

[Unkabear]

In the midnight game that I am in the DM threw a horde of spiked chain wielding guys with levitate. That would have been worse if our party was not based around a good deal of archers. Though now we have a party and a ton of spiked chains that no one will use. I have one just in case, but with the negatives for not having the feat it is a weapon of last resort. Really we are just keeping them for barter or trade later, but I have not seen that much abuse from it.

To abuse the spiked chain you have to dedicate yourself to it and in most campaigns I have seen most people are not willing to dedicate themselves to a weapon that is hard to come by and easy to sunder. Yes you can pull cheese. But you can do that with any munchkin. And as for how it would be wielded. My wife did Color Guard for a long time and one of the flags that they used was effectively a spiked chain (minus the spikes) and they were able to have a line of these girls swinging these things around in tight formation little more than 5' apart. It is similar to a greatsword wielding fighter you swing the blade(chain) around you or close to you building momentum before letting loose. Plus in D&D and most of the rest of the games based on it suspension of belief is part of the game. I would not tell a player no unless they are the power gamer type and are building something that would detract from the fun of the other players. But that could be anything really not just the spiked chain.

 

[Greg K]

(my emphasis) What? Unlike spellcasting, fantastic creatures of mythology, and feats of super-human athleticism?

If he is like me, he'll probably also ban certain spells, creatures, etc. that don't fit the type of campaign that he wants to run. The rules are just a toolbox.