Any good ways to counter harm?

[Lord Ben]

Without house rules, what are good ways to protect yourself from Harm if you're a PC? What about if you're an NPC with limited funds? For an NPC my most effective tactic so far is to be disposable until he uses it up for the day and THEN bring out the big, bad guy.


***********RttToEE SPOILERS!!!************


My party is getting close to Imix in the Temple of EE and I'm worried it will turn into "cast harm, beat SR20, hit him once" and the battle is over.

Any advice would be great, thanks.

 

[Crothian]

The best way I've found has been with illusions. Character cast harm on an illusion. Harm spell used up and illusion gone. Other good ways are through blur, and displacement like spells. 20%-50% miss chance is pretty darm effective. Get your touch AC pretty high with good dex score and dodge bonuses. Up the SR. Game SR's are mostly a joke. Contingency spells are good as are a spare heal spellsor two. Use harm on the cleric first and then take him down. What's good for the gander is good for the goose. Missile weapons, don't let the guy get close enough. Counterspells.

Harm against an unsespecting person can be deadly. But for someone who prepared for the tactic, it should be easy to neutrailize with a little planning and common sense.

 

[mikebr99]

3rd level cleric spell, Negative energy protection...

6th level cleric spell, Spell resistance...

 

[wolff96]

I'm not familiar with the RttToEE adventure, but there are a few ways to beat Harm.

1: It's a Touch Spell. Super high ACs will make it difficult to make that touch attack.

2: Spell Resistance. Any spells/items that grant or improve spell resistance will help out a lot.

3: Spell Immunity. This will stop Harm outright. Also very useful for stopping the ever annoying Magic Missile. It only takes someone capable of 4th level clerical magic, and I'm pretty sure there have to be at least one or two clerics in a place known as a Temple.

4) Ring of Counterspells. Another (albeit one-shot) method of stopping Harm in it's tracks.

5) Don't let the Cleric touch you. This could be tough, but using spells, reach, trip attacks, readied actions, etc., it would be possible just to simply stay away from the cleric. Other options include Wall spells, movement impeding spells like Entangle, Hold Spells... all the way down to low-tech, low-spell methods such as tanglefoot bags.

6) Mind Control. Dominate the cleric and have him Harm the fighter. I've generally found that is a good way to REALLY piss off players, especially with un-Rule 0'ed Harm.

7) Counterspelling. Any time the cleric casts Harm, have another cleric/druid (or another class using Dispel Magic) on hand to counterspell it.

8) Don't be there for the touch. Various methods exist for incorporeality, miss chances, and other things such as mirror image. This is a VERY temporary solution, because they WILL find a way to hit you. (Does popping a mirror image burn up the "charge" of Harm? I don't know.)

9) Contingency Spells. "If I am reduced below 1/4 of my hit points, Heal me." No smart dragon that can cast divine spells would go ANYWHERE without that one. Even if you are not a dragon and only have access to Arcane spells, you can turn that one into "teleport me the heck out of there."

10) Keep the Cleric from casting Harm in the first place. A grappled cleric cannot cast harm unless he had the foresight to prepare it with the Still Spell metamagic feat. A silence spell will keep the cleric from using the verbal components unless he used the Silent Spell metamagic feat. This one has another bonus -- cast it on a fighter type and have them hunt down the cleric and stay with him. Keeping the group from healing ought to slow them down pretty effectively.

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That's my top ten countdown of how to keep the Harm spell from totally dominating.

Of course, I just house-ruled the spell so that creatures get a will-save to lose only half of their current hitpoints (can't take them less than 1d4 hp, though.)

 

[mikebr99]

I had originally thought of Spell Immunity also... but it only works for up to 4th level spells...

The warded creature is immune to the effects of one specified spell for every four levels the character has . The spells must be
of 4th level or lower. The warded creature effectively has unbeatable SR regarding the specified spell or spells. Naturally, that
spell immunity doesn’t protect a creature from spells for which SR doesn’t apply. Spell immunity protects against spells, spelllike
effects of magic items, and innate spell-like abilities of creatures. It does not protect against supernatural or extraordinary
abilities, such as breath weapons or gaze attacks. Only a particular spell can be protected against, not a certain domain or
school of spells or a group of spells that are similar in effect.

 

[Lord Ben]

Negative energy protection is only against level and ability drains right?

 

[Greatwyrm]

I'm not familiar with RttToEE, but what self-respecting boss villain hangs out by himself? I assume he has minions. Set them loose on the spell casters.

If you have any discretion in the minion selection, be sure to include a druid. Probably half of the druid's best spells are all about movement control. Entangle, Spike Stones, Spike Growth, Briar Web, Soften Earth. This all goes with the suggestion from wolff96 to not let them touch you in the first place.

How about an anti-magic field?

Give them a reason not to want to touch the villain. Virulent disease, an aura of flame, hostages.

Is the main bad guy undead? If so, would Harm work on him?

 

[Lord Ben]

The main Villian is Imix, the Prince of Evil Fire Elementals. He mainly uses his collosal flamin greatsword, although he can summon elementals. He has a companion of a 7th level Cleric Medusa. I was planning on the Medusa taking some searing lights, etc to disrupt the cleric if he casts harm or anything else. Imix has like 5 or 6 attacks and does 4d8+lots of damage with each swing. Since he's so tall he has roughly a 20ft reach although the module isn't in front of me. I could technically add some things, but he's already incredibly challanging to the party.

 

[rhammer2]

Correct, it does not protect you from Inflict... or Harm spells.

Negative energy protection is only against level and ability drains right?

 

[Greatwyrm]

Well, if he's got big reach and plenty of minions, how about this...

1. Summon all the extra help he can get

2. Turn the Medusa completely loose, pull no punches. Start with high level magic and stoning gaze attacks and go from there.

3. With plenty of other stuff on his side, Imix should be able to devote some rounds to readying actions. Specifically, readying to smack the bejeezus out of somebody trying to cast a spell, hit him with a touch attack, coming into reach, or whatever you like. Plus, if he's got a big reach, the cleric will probably incur an AoO on the way to deliver the touch attack.

If this guy is basically a big fire elemental, wouldn't he subject the cleric to the Burn special ability when the touch attack is delivered? I'm sure the cleric will have some sort of elemental protections up, but that could still be up to 2d10+12 damage with the chance of catching on fire.

How high level is the Medusa Cleric. Does she have access to Dispel Magic, Harm, or Silence? Dispel and Harm can be used to counterspell Harm; Silence counters pretty much everything that isn't Silent Spelled.