Any news from Gygax Games yet?

[JohnRTroy]

It's about how Gail and the Gygax are doing. Point is: we do not know what is going on. Let's stop pretending we do for a moment. We don't.

When they're ready, they'll make their move and release some of Gary's works. Maybe that'll never happen, but I prefer to see them all well and good, rather than getting stuff I want at their expense, monetary, personal, and otherwise. I wish them all the best in the world.

Exactly. One of the reasons I get a little angry is I see people more angry at about what will happen to the material then about the man's family, and this seems to be more from the "old school" die hard fans than the general fans. (And that's not a complaint about all, just some select people).

I mean, regardless of what happens to the material, I think we owe Gail Gygax a great debt, because she helped Gary by forming Trigee, by working a day job to keep putting food on the table (game designing is not a hugely lucrative business) and allowing Gary to create and communicate with fans without compromising his own set of principles.

Even if she has a different interpretation of things than Gary might have chosen, I feel she has earned that right.

FWIW, Stoink was left on Gary's office desk at TSR, unfortunately, per Rob Kuntz

Easily handwaved, with or without an obvious decoder ring key
See above

Good point, John.

Yeah, I just want people to realize that there's probably not a hidden room filled to the brim with reams of notebooks. I suspect that which Gary wrote originally for TSR might be lost, and if its what I expected he avoided detailing Greyhawk after 1986. The Castle is probably the only thing because he occasionally used it and probably had many levels nearly memorized.

Gygax's original inspiration has moved WAY beyond him at this point and to be honest, I can't see a lot of what we'd get at this point being 'real' Gary as opposed to 'inspired by Gary' ala a lot of the Troll Lords material with his name on the cover.

From a personal preference, I understand this, because I felt the most purest form of Gary was his own writing. Yggsburg was probably the last. I'm not entirely sure why they expanded GFW beyond the 2.5 books he wrote (the first 3, with Living Fantasy IMO being the best). There's still unpublished work, but a lot of it comes from the period before 2004. I mean, he pretty much was forced into a very restricted schedule after his stroke and heart attack. It's just unfortunate that it happened shortly after he decided to tackle the huge project.

 

[Knightfall]

While I'd be interesting in anything Zagyg, I'm more curious about what his children are up to, regarding game design.

Are the next generation of Gygaxs going to make their mark?

It's interesting to think about. They are his legacy more than any of the games he created.

Just stirring up trouble,

KF

 

[JohnRTroy]

While I'd be interesting in anything Zagyg, I'm more curious about what his children are up to, regarding game design.

Are the next generation of Gygaxs going to make their mark?

It's interesting to think about. They are his legacy more than any of the games he created.

True, but I have a feeling you'd be disappointed. My best guess right now is that none of them see the game business as something to be involved in.

While all six children were involved in gaming and the first five all did something at TSR, I don't see any of them being involved in the business that much.

I've only met Alex and Ernie face to face. Ernie's a master of boardgames and from what I understand can usually kick everybody's butt.

Cindy is I believe the only Gygax along with her mother who kept her faith with the Watchtower society, and at one point she was a bit estranged as she was critical of gaming. I think they got a little closer though when Gary had some renewed faith, but I don't really know all the details. She seems friendly with several of Gary's fans, as I've seen her posts on Facebook.

Heidi and Elsie don't play RPGs to my knowledge. I do know Elsie is the owner of GaryCon, while Luke is pretty much the coordinator and public face. Alex is I believe in college right now, so I think he has other concerns. He's also been involved in Gary's campaigns.

Luke and Ernie are the two gamers mostly know. Both are more game enthusiasts than game writers, I believe Ernie spends most of his time playing board games rather than RPGs. To the best of my knowledge, he was not involved in Gary's later non-D&D campaigns AFAIK. Luke has been playing in Gary's campaigns for years. He was in the DJ campaign, then in the LA campaign. (Stryx was that character's name). He is in the military and I believe is heading back to Afghanistan right now.

Luke and Ernie I believe have only written a few gaming products in history. I have a feeling that if they wanted to be in the business they might have released a lot more product. I believe Gary asked both of them to consider co-writing Castle Zagyg after Kuntz left, because they had the best first-hand knowledge and experience, but neither were willing.

Not everybody is a writer by trade and I think if you're looking for a "Gygax Dynasty", it's not likely. Many others who worked under or with Gary have gone on to bigger things, so I doubt they really have the "writer's muse" you need. Luke is very involved with the GaryCon gaming convention, so I think he'd rather be about the playing than the creating.

None of the children have any stake in the Intellectual Property, all of it belongs to Gail.

 

[ghul]

The really sad thing is how Jeff Talanian was pushed off the Castle Zagyg project. Given the time he'd spent on it, and how good the Upper Works were, I had high hopes for the next installment. Honestly, at this stage it was only CZ that would interest me - and without Jeff, I don't think Gygax Games has a hope of producing it.

Thank you for the kind words, Merric. They are much appreciated. I did indeed spend over a year working on the first installment of CZ, for which I received embarassingly small compensation due in part to its extremely limited shelf life.

While I would not be so bold as to claim final authority on Castle Zagyg, the unfortunate truth is that Gary and I had hundreds of private conversations and exchanges regarding the (then) future development of the project, and he had me thoroughly prepared to complete the whole in a manner consistent with his style and his wishes. At this point, I'm afraid I'm going to have to take the content of our many exchanges to the grave.

I wish the Gygax family nothing but the finest, and it was great to spend time with them this past March at Gary Con II. They are great people.

For my own part, I've since moved on to working on my own projects, the beginnings of which can be seen here:
HYPERBOREA

I'm also a regular contributor to the magazines Fight On! and Knockspell.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Jeff Talanian

 

[JohnRTroy]

For my own part, I've since moved on to working on my own projects, the beginnings of which can be seen here:
HYPERBOREA

And I strongly recommend people check this out, because I've always felt that one of the truer wishes of EGG was for people to create their own new games, not just copy the existing ones.

To much of the OSR creativity right now is just a lot of copying of the same AD&D root. That's not to say it isn't good in its own right, but people forget that in the early days there was a lot of experimentation and creativity--Gygax, Arneson, and the others were used to writing new games all the time. Jeff is following Gary's footsteps with that attitude (along with Dan Cross who has his own game, Eldritch).

 

[Wheggi and Progdog]

Wow, I do have an account at this place. An old, old account. Cool.

I too fully support the work of Mr. Talanian - past, present and future - and look forward to anything the man writes.

- Wheggi

 

[Harley Stroh]

For my own part, I've since moved on to working on my own projects, the beginnings of which can be seen here:
HYPERBOREA

Jeff,

When do we get to see the core rules for ASTONISHING SWORDSMEN & SORCERERS of HYPERBOREA?

//H

 

[ghul]

@JRT -- Thank you for the kind words, but I must say none of this would be possible were it not for the foundation laid by Gary and Dave.

@Wheggi -- Very kind of you to say, and right back at you, because I've long enjoyed your essays on megadungeon development, and your maps are nothing short of phenomenal.

@ Harley -- Thanks for mentioning it! Development of Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea continues to progress, and a 2010 release looks very promising. The rules are nearly set; it's the setting material that remains in development, including the map and the write-ups of its significant regions, all being treated in a concise manner so as to provide the referee with plenty of room for personal creativity and flexibility.

So, in short, AS&SH is an alternative means of playing a traditional-styled RPG, leaning more toward sword-and-sorcery and weird-fantasy, and less toward high fantasy; the game's setting draws literary inspiration from the works HP Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith, and Robert E. Howard.

Lastly, I would be remiss if I did not mention the fantastic illustrations provided by Ian Baggley. Ian has been a workhorse, turning in close to 100 illustrations over the last year and a half, and his style perfectly captures the mood we are trying to capture with this game and its adventures.

As an aside, I'd like to mention the DCC RPG that Harley is play-testing. At Gary Con II, my friend Don had the opportunity to play in a game run by Joe Goodman, and he came away very impressed by the unique innovations.

 

[Treebore]

While I'd be interesting in anything Zagyg, I'm more curious about what his children are up to, regarding game design.

Are the next generation of Gygaxs going to make their mark?

It's interesting to think about. They are his legacy more than any of the games he created.

Just stirring up trouble,

KF

The only thing I know of is Luke and Ernie's "Lost City of Gaxmoor" and that they are supposed to be turning in a new C&C version soon. So RPG writing and design definitely seems to be very much an "on the back burner" possibility for them right now.

 

[Grimstaff]

Exactly. One of the reasons I get a little angry is I see people more angry at about what will happen to the material then about the man's family, and this seems to be more from the "old school" die hard fans than the general fans. (And that's not a complaint about all, just some select people).

John, while I can appreciate the sentiment here, I don't think people's frustration is completely unfounded. Its important to remember that a lot of people bought a lot of books that were promoted as supplements to Castle Zagyg (Yggsburg, etc). Then, just as the "meat" of the line, the first of several boxed sets detailing the actual dungeons, gets released, the line is killed, without even a proper print run.

Had Zagyg been pulled to be released more aggressively under Gygax Games, I think more people would have been understanding about the situation. Instead, its disappeared into limbo with little or no explanation. A wait-and-see marketing strategy is understandable when launching a new product, but when the product in question is the last 2 or 3 books of more than a dozen, that just seems like a way to lose and irritate faithful customers rather than gain them.

Just my .02. Hope things take a turn for the better soon!