any reason a Lich couldnt be assassinated (ie: Death Attack)

[Ardenian]

i killed once last night, and we think it could have been immune to death attacks...

anyone have any thoughts on this?

thanks all,
-Russ

 

[Shazman]

Undead are immune to both sneak attack and death effects, so a death attack will not work on them. Look in the monster manual for undead traits. Their was an epic feat in 3.0 that let you do this. I think it was in Dragon # 292.

 

[calypso15]

Death Attack:

If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies.

Undead Type:

-Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

-Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.

Calypso

 

[Pyrex]

Undead are immune to [Death] effects, but the Assassin's Death Attack is not a [Death] effect.

It is contingent upon a successful sneak attack though, which Undead are immune to as a result of being immune to critical hits.

Even if you somehow (feats, spells, the new augment crystal in the forthcoming Magic Item Compendium, etc) manage to Sneak Attack an Undead, the Death Attack *still* won't work because Undead are immune to any effect that allows a Fort save unless that effect can affect objects (i.e. Disintegrate, which works great against undead with their typically poor Fort saves)

 

[calypso15]

Undead are immune to [Death] effects, but the Assassin's Death Attack is not a [Death] effect.

It doesn't say that they're immune to spells with the [Death] descriptor. It says that they're immune to death effects. And you'd be hard pressed to convince me that "death attack" is not a death effect.

Calypso

 

[Nail]

FWIW, I agree with calypso15.

Death Attack (Ex) can't be used on an Undead because:

• They're immune to "death effects", and
• they're immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

 

[Ardenian]

It doesn't say that they're immune to spells with the [Death] descriptor. It says that they're immune to death effects. And you'd be hard pressed to convince me that "death attack" is not a death effect.

Calypso

sneak attack works is the target is occupied or engaged in another battle, no?

 

[Nail]

sneak attack works is the target is occupied or engaged in another battle, no?

Nope.

It has nothing to do with "the target is occupied". Sneak attack works if:

• the target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or
• when the rogue flanks her target. [/quote]

 

[IcyCool]

sneak attack works is the target is occupied or engaged in another battle, no?

No, not for undead. Any creature that is immune to critical hits (like the undead) are also immune to the extra damage from sneak attacks. This also makes them immune to the assassin's death attack (read the death attack description). Even if that weren't the case, undead are still immune to any effect that gives a Fortitude save (unless it works on objects, which death attack doesn't). And last but not least, undead are immune to "death" effects.

 

[Nail]

....not to mention the fact that:

Undead are not subject to critical hits,

and

Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks.