D&D 5E Any reason not to let PCs add Proficiency to all Saves?

[KarinsDad]

What if you gave characters half their proficiency bonus on their non-proficient saves instead?

We do this in our game. It helps a little, but is far from game breaking. I like this compromise because adding proficiency bonus does make many of the PCs too similar.

 

[KarinsDad]

Other fixes for things that someone might not like in 5e:

Characters start with 18s in all stats.

Everyone gets 12 HP each level, no need to roll.

Every class has proficiency with heavy armor.

All classes have are proficient with an additional 10 skills of the player's choice.

Automatic x2 to a character's proficiency bonus.

Humor aside, the OP has a good point.

At high level, the non-proficient saves have a tendency to be in the -1 to +1 range and the proficient saves have a tendency to be in the +7 to +11 range.

This more or less defeats the purpose of bounded accuracy. Nearly all versions of D&D had saves that improved over levels, not saves that stayed the same at level 20 as at level 1.

 

[Diamabel]

I think of Medusa as well. If you look at Medusa, you turn to stone, shouldn't it be a Will (WIS) save to control yourself and not do that? What does Fort or CON have to do with that.

The medusa's gaze doesn't attack the will, it attacks the body- thus fort/con.

 

[BryonD]

The medusa's gaze doesn't attack the will, it attacks the body- thus fort/con.

I disagree because the body has zero chance of overcoming the attack.

If you fall into lava - you die - no save

If you see Medusa you turn to stone - no save

The save is to avoid going into the "no save" situation. Using willpower to avoid looking at her, or presence of mind to be averting your eyes altogether, are reasonable.

 

[Sunseeker]

There are feats to allow players to gain proficiency in I believe all saved by Charisma, since you get two by default, you only need 4 more, which arguably takes all your feats, but if you want to go that route it is available. You could certainly grant additional proficiencies as a player levels up though. I don't see that it would be terribly unbalancing if classes gained an additional proficiency every 5 levels or so. That would cover all 4 by 20th level.

Also keep in mind that the proficiency progression is fairly slow, it's only +6 at 20th, so w/o magical buffs, the BEST DC you could have is only 19 (8+6+5).

 

[Jester David]

PC saves are 8+prof+ability score. But monster saves are not. They don't go up at the same rate.
And at 1st level a save might be DC 13 while at 20th level a save will be DC 19. So it doesn't increase remotely to the same heights as 3e.

 

[KarinsDad]

If you see Medusa you turn to stone - no save

The save is to avoid going into the "no save" situation. Using willpower to avoid looking at her, or presence of mind to be averting your eyes altogether, are reasonable.

Not in 5E. It's a DC 14 Con save. If failed by 5, the PC is auto-petrified. Averting one's eyes can avoid the save at all, but there is a save. And if the medusa can force the PC to look at it, the PC must make the Con save right away.

 

[BryonD]

Not in 5E. It's a DC 14 Con save. If failed by 5, the PC is auto-petrified. Averting one's eyes can avoid the save at all, but there is a save. And if the medusa can force the PC to look at it, the PC must make the Con save right away.

At my table 5E is wrong.

 

[GSHamster]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that it will break bounded accuracy for low level caster enemies.

For example, low level cultists who can cast first and second level spells. Without the proficiency bonus, these guys are still somewhat dangerous to higher level enemies. With the proficiency bonus in saves, they become much less threatening to higher level PCs.

Effectively, you can only throw casters of roughly equal level or higher at the PCs. This is unlike fighter types where you can throw in a bunch and they can still be dangerous.

 

[S'mon]

Also keep in mind that the proficiency progression is fairly slow, it's only +6 at 20th, so w/o magical buffs, the BEST DC you could have is only 19 (8+6+5).

Ancient red and gold breath attack is DC 24 (even an ancient white is DC 22).
A non-DEX proficient PC eg Fighter with DEX 10 gets +0, is only saving on a 20. With +6 Proficiency he gets +6, saves on an 18.

A DEX +6 proficient character with DEX 20, say a Rogue, is getting +11 and saving on a 13.

(a) There is still plenty of spread.
(b) This is hardly 1e save-on-a-2 territory.

Edit: I don't understand why people are bringing up PC caster DCs. PCs will hardly ever be fighting other PCs, and NPCs are not built as PCs in 5e - eg the Archmage is an 18th level caster with +4 Proficiency
because NPC Proficiency is derived from CR, not hit dice or level. He is 18 hd but CR 12 so has +4 Prof.