Any Way to Get Away When Prone?

[KarinsDad]

But "You can't take a 5-foot step if your movement is hampered" (3.5PHB p304). If you can normally take a move action to move 30 feet, and while prone can only take a move action to move 5 feet, is your movement not hampered (thus disallowing a 5' step)?

It depends:

"Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance.

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed. "


Where does it state that being prone results in difficult terrain (or darkness)?

The creature also still has his speed while prone. Whether he can use that speed or not to move could be considered irrelevant to whether he has that speed.


So, what stops: 5 foot step, stand up, use standard action?


Note: I do not have my PHB here, but do not see anything in the SRD.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The creature also still has his speed while prone. Whether he can use that speed or not to move could be considered irrelevant to whether he has that speed.

I disagree based on the definition of speed: "The number of feet a creature can move when taking a move action." A human with speed of 30 cannot move 30 feet while prone (he can only crawl 5ft), and thus his speed is not 30. It's 5. A creature with a speed of 5 cannot take a 5ft-step.

So, what stops: 5 foot step, stand up, use standard action?

Crawling 5ft is clearly a move action: "You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl." Are you arguing that while prone you can do other than crawl, given that being prone you are "lying on the ground"?

 

[KarinsDad]

I disagree based on the definition of speed: "The number of feet a creature can move when taking a move action." A human with speed of 30 cannot move 30 feet while prone (he can only crawl 5ft), and thus his speed is not 30. It's 5. A creature with a speed of 5 cannot take a 5ft-step.

The question is: Where does it state that a prone creature's speed changes to 5?

Where does it state that your Speed decreases or changes while prone?

 

[Infiniti2000]

The question is: Where does it state that a prone creature's speed changes to 5?

Where does it state that your Speed decreases or changes while prone?

In the fact that you must crawl while prone. Now, can you please answer my previous question?

 

[Artoomis]

KarinsDad is right, sort of. There is a rather hype-technical argument for hway you get a 5-foot step when prone. It's all pretty much nonsense, of course, but it goes something like this:

1. You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement.
2. You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.
3. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

The rules do not actually state that the only possible move while prove is a 5-foot crawl. You could, I suppose, roll out of the way - moving at who knows what rate of speed since nothing is in the rules for this.

Also, your speed is technnically still whatever is was before you were prone, the mere fact that you can only move 5 feet does not meen your movement rate has changed. There are many conditions when your movement is hampered some way but they do not actually change your base movement rate, only how much of that you get to actually move.

Now, as I said, these are nonsense arguments and it is pretty obvious you do not get a 5-foot step when prone.

 

[KarinsDad]

In the fact that you must crawl while prone.

Where is this rule?

"Crawling: You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl."

Where does it state that you must crawl when prone?

Now, can you please answer my previous question?

Sure.

Are you arguing that while prone you can do other than crawl, given that being prone you are "lying on the ground"?

Yes. I am arguing that. There is a "kneeling or sitting" position on Table 8-6 Armor Class Modifiers. This means that kneeling and sitting are legitimate combat positions.

So, it can be argued that it is a move action to move from prone to kneeling and another move action to move from kneeling to standing. Since neither of these two actions provoke, you could theoretically get up using two move actions without provoking.

Table 8-2 indicates that you provoke an AoO when standing from prone, not for other standing move actions.

 

[KarinsDad]

KarinsDad is right, sort of. There is a rather hype-technical argument for hway you get a 5-foot step when prone. It's all pretty much nonsense, of course, but it goes something like this:

1. You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement.
2. You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.
3. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

The rules do not actually state that the only possible move while prove is a 5-foot crawl. You could, I suppose, roll out of the way - moving at who knows what rate of speed since nothing is in the rules for this.

Also, your speed is technnically still whatever is was before you were prone, the mere fact that you can only move 5 feet does not meen your movement rate has changed. There are many conditions when your movement is hampered some way but they do not actually change your base movement rate, only how much of that you get to actually move.

Now, as I said, these are nonsense arguments and it is pretty obvious you do not get a 5-foot step when prone.

Obvious?

Where do you come up with your fact: "the mere fact that you can only move 5 feet"?

Where in the book does it state that you can only move 5 feet when prone?

Where in the book does it state that you cannot move normally when prone?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes. I am arguing that. There is a "kneeling or sitting" position on Table 8-6 Armor Class Modifiers. This means that kneeling and sitting are legitimate combat positions.

So, it can be argued that it is a move action to move from prone to kneeling and another move action to move from kneeling to standing. Since neither of these two actions provoke, you could theoretically get up using two move actions without provoking.

Well, since there's no action defined to go from prone to kneeling, an argument that 'It is a move action that does not provoke!' is without substance.

A DM could deem it a free action that does not provoke, or a free action that provokes, or a move action that does not provoke, or a move action that provokes, or a standard action that does not provoke, or a standard action that provokes, or a full round action that does not provoke, or a full round action that provokes.

You can't say "It doesn't say what action it is, therefore it's a move action that does not provoke!" when that's only one of many possible options.

Table 8-2 indicates that you provoke an AoO when standing from prone, not for other standing move actions.

Since standing from prone is the only 'standing move action' listed on Table 8-2, it's also true to say that every single 'standing move action' on the table provokes an AoO.

Where in the book does it state that you cannot move normally when prone?

Indeed - nor does it say you can't take the Run action to move 4x your speed in a straight line, or the Charge action, or use Spring Attack, or Leap Attack...

One wonders why the crawl action even exists, since it's strictly inferior to using the move action to move your speed!

One does wonder, right? Or does one assume it's there for a reason?

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

Well, since there's no action defined to go from prone to kneeling, an argument that 'It is a move action that does not provoke!' is without substance.

A DM could deem it a free action that does not provoke, or a free action that provokes, or a move action that does not provoke, or a move action that provokes, or a standard action that does not provoke, or a standard action that provokes, or a full round action that does not provoke, or a full round action that provokes.

You can't say "It doesn't say what action it is, therefore it's a move action that does not provoke!" when that's only one of many possible options.

I did not say it had to be this. I said "it can be argued".

It can especially be argued that it is a move action (instead of free or standard or full) since other non-manipulative of items actions which involve a semblance of movement but do not actually result in movement are move actions (e.g. standing from prone, mount/dismount).

And, dismount allows you to go from a sitting position to a standing position without provoking an AoO. Granted, it is sitting on a horse as opposed to the ground, but there are similar movement rules.

There is more precedence for it being a move action than any other type of action and yes, this can legitimately be argued using the similar rule rule.

Since standing from prone is the only 'standing move action' listed on Table 8-2, it's also true to say that every single 'standing move action' on the table provokes an AoO.

Which still says nothing about what standing from a kneeling position does.

Indeed - nor does it say you can't take the Run action to move 4x your speed in a straight line, or the Charge action, or use Spring Attack, or Leap Attack...

One wonders why the crawl action even exists, since it's strictly inferior to using the move action to move your speed!

One does wonder, right? Or does one assume it's there for a reason?

Crawling does have an implication. An implication that you turn your back on a foe while crawling away.

Withdraw also has an implication. Getting away from your opponent without lowering your guard in any way.

So, why does Crawl take precedence over Withdraw when Prone? Or Restricted Withdraw for that matter?

 

[Jack Simth]

Teleportation magic is one way to do the trick. Casting Dimension Door on the defensive, for example, will get you out of the way without provoking an AOO.

A Ring of Spell Storing is such a useful item to have.... Command-word items don't provoke (so nor does a spell cast back out of the ring), no Arcane Spell Failure chance (no Somatic components), and anyone can use the spell once it's been placed in the ring (if they have the Command Word, of course....). A healing or buff-centered cleric benefits greatly from having a Spectral Hand available, a rogue can work wonders with Invisiblity, Silence, or both (although the Fighter needs the pairing more.... just make sure he uses Invisibility FIRST), and a stored Dimension Door gets you well out of the threatened area to stand up.