Any way to have a paladin special mount be something else?

[Question]

A maiden to be exact. Which brings up an interesting question : What if the female human, elf or half-elf in question loses her virginity?

 

[Edheldur]

Yes, the Paladin would need to take the leadership feat in order to have the unicorn as her mount. And when figuring out what ECL the Unicorn is for purposes of leadership, you'd add +2 to its ECL for the extra abilities of being a paladin mount.

Ehm... not necessarily. What you said is true according to p. 200 of the DMG, but there's more about paladins and mounts in p. 204 of the DMG and it explicitly says that in order to get a unicorn you need to be a 6th level paladin and use another table to determine your mount's advancement.

Don't you just hate it when there are 2 different rulings about the same issue just 4 pages away from each other?

 

[Question]

Weird why would they put it on page 204? Most would totally miss that.

Okay just checked, that still doesnt explain how the bonus HD from the paladin's special mount abiltiy interacts with leadership though.

 

[Edheldur]

Weird why would they put it on page 204? Most would totally miss that.

Well, page 204 is where the mount rules are, and page 200 where the leadership rules are. What I find weird is that there are 2 separate rules about the same issue.

Okay just checked, that still doesnt explain how the bonus HD from the paladin's special mount abiltiy interacts with leadership though.

If I understand it correctly, it works like this:
Unicorns have 4 HD and a level adjustment of +4. So, they are ECL 8 creatures. If I use the rules on page 200, I have to take leadership AND wait till I can have a cohort of 10th level (because of the +2 LA thing as a cohort) and have to be at least a 12th level paladin. Since there's no mention at all about the bonus HD, AND the character needs a feat, AND use the ECL of the creature I would say it gets the bonus HD of the regular mount of a 12th level paladin (that is +6 HD).

Now, comparing to the rule on page 204, I just have to be a 6th. level paladin and get a unicorn as my mount. By 12th level, using the table on page 205 it gets +6 HD (Level +6 line) and didn't have to spend a feat or use the ECL, instead I just had to wait one level.

Let's take a look at the griffon:
1) Page 200: Griffon's ECL = 10, and as a mount with leadership is ECL 12. So, a 14th level paladin can get it with +6 HD, and a 15th level paladin can get it with +8 HD.
2) Page 204: Griffon can be taken at 8th level. So at 14th level, it gets +6 HD and at 15th level it still gets +6 HD.

 

[Question]

I thought you only get an additional +2 LA for the unicorn if you are a paladin and taking it as your special mount?

Edit : Here is wizard's reply :

Essentially yes, although it is up to the DM to adjudicate what to allow with the special cohort mount allowance. He/she may want to put a restriction on the progression or something.

I asked, specifically, whether a 20th level paladin with a 12 HD unicorn cohort with +6 LA would have 20 HD after factoring in the paladin special mount bonuses.

Hmm i wonder if this would be broken?

 

[Edheldur]

I thought you only get an additional +2 LA for the unicorn if you are a paladin and taking it as your special mount?

And you are right. My post was made in reference to a paladin trying to get a unicorn or a griffon as his special mount.

 

[shoof]

Elf Paladin 5 substitution level you get a unicorn instead of a regular mount

 

[Question]

Elf paladin substition levels also force you to use ranged smite instead of melee smite.

 

[Legildur]

A friend has borrowed my book (Races of the Wild), but I don't believe that you are forced to take all the offered substitution levels.... For example, Races of Stone, p146, "A character need not take all the substitution levels provided for a class. For instance, a goliath barbarian might decide to take only the racial substitution level at 7th level, ignoring the previous substitution levels."

 

[Question]

Slight problem : level 5 substituion level specifically gives you ranged smite 2/day(IIRC). A DM may house rule it otherwise though.