Any word yet on 3.5 Paladins?

[Utrecht]

Then a whole host of 'Holy Warriors' as a core class needs to be defined, wouldn't you say? At least that is how I am handling it in my games.

Something like that, yes.

Sounds good. I would like to point you to the UMBRAGIA boards here at ENWorld. I would specifically like your feedback on the work we are doing to make the Priest and Holy Warrior concepts more faith based, rather than cookie-cutter implementations.

You may also want to take a look at what Aaron Loeb did in the Book of the Rightous - Where they created a Holy Warrior class that is pretty customizable based off of the beliefs of the patron deity.

 

[KDLadage]

You may also want to take a look at what Aaron Loeb did in the Book of the Rightous - Where they created a Holy Warrior class that is pretty customizable based off of the beliefs of the patron deity.

Have it and it is an excellent book (I plan to review it soon).

But the Holy Warrior's of UMBRAGIA (called Crusaders) have been arround in one form or another before thr BotR and we are almost done with it and my cleric-replacement class (Priest). These two classes are very much aligned with one another and I would like to keep it that way...

 

[Utrecht]

I suspected that you had it - but just wanted to cover the bases.

I (self deluding) hope that WoTC would go to this as their Palidan class - but given the fact that this will (likely) not happen - Thus, IMC I have replaced Paladins with the BotR Holy Warrior.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'd probably PREFER a more flexible cleric/fighter hybrid class (one perhaps based aorund domains), but I seriously doubt they'll be doing that...

It's a paladin. It's lawful good. Take your other ideas and make them house rules or 3rd parties.

I like the Celestial Companion idea, and perhaps some powers to use against Chaos as well as evil wouldn't be too out of line...mmmm...

 

[Simplicity]

I'm betting on the removal of the Lawful Good alignment restriction. How do neutral temple guard all their stuff
anyways? It always seemed silly to me that a paladin had
to be lawful good... they should just have to follow the
teachings of the good that they follow, similar to a cleric
for that religion.

 

[CrusaderX]

I wouldn't mind seeing the Paladin drop to a d8 hit die, if they get a boost in powers as well as maybe some new ones.

The Celestial Companion option sounds cool, too.

I'd want to keep the Lawful Good alignment, though. I'm too much of a traditionalist.

 

[Number47]

I would like the Paladin to have the ability to strike with any weapon as if it were Lawful, and later add Holy. That is, not the plus damage enhancement, but to get around DR the way the new Monk will. It would make a lot of sense and have a lot of flavor if the Paladin's strikes naturally harmed the most evil and vicious critters better.

 

[Pants]

You know, if you drop the Paladin's LG prerequisite, then it's not a Paladin anymore.

 

[FireLance]

Not wanting to start an argument, or hijack the thread... but I would like to know a couple of things:

1. Why should the Paladin remains a LG only class? Certainly the Lord of Chaos or the Lords of Evil have thier own Holy Warriors do they not?
2. How would opening the class up to other alignments and showing how they might differ (especially if that discussion were reserved for the DMG) be a complete revamp? It would be the addition of options best I acn see.
3. I agree that the Paladin should be the best at fighting that which s/he is dedicated to fighting (Lawful Good paladins against the Evil and Chaos for example). Asside from a rather borish more smites per day how else could you see doing this?

I suppose the key question is, why is the Paladin a core class. The other "Holy Warrior" classes are PrCs. Mechanics-wise, there is no reason why the Paladin should not be a PrC, or why you could not have a "Holy Warrior" core class. In terms of flavour, however, I like the idea that a person dedicated to the ideals of Law and Good can be entrusted with a bit more power from the start of his adventuring career.

As to how a Paladin could be made more effective against chaos and evil, how about the following, either as advanced class abilities or achievable through feats:

1. Detect Evil in a 360 degree radius, so that the Paladin is immediately aware when evil is near. Or perhaps this gives the paladin a level/2 bonus to Spot checks against evil.

2. As a further refinement to Detect Evil, give the Paladin a level/2 bonus to Sense Motive checks against evil.

3. Allow the Paladin to radiate a personal Protection From Evil effect or a Magic Circle Against Evil effect.

4. Give the Paladin a further bonus to saves against committing evil acts when Charmed, Dominated or otherwise controlled.

5. 1/day, when facing an evil foe, the Paladin can ask for a special blessing from his God, in the form of a cleric spell of the foe's CR/2 or less. When facing a CR 1/2 orc, he could ask for a 0-level Virtue spell. When facing a CR 16 pit fiend, he could ask for a 8th-level Holy Aura.

 

[Felon]

You know, if you drop the Paladin's LG prerequisite, then it's not a Paladin anymore.

How come? Neutral Good or Lawful Neutral crusaders can't make a dedication to pursue justice, defend the innocent, and smit evil?

Let's see...

Main Entry: pal·a·din
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Italian paladino, from Medieval Latin palatinus courtier, from Late Latin, imperial official -- more at PALATINE
Date: 1592
1 : a trusted military leader (as for a medieval prince)
2 : a leading champion of a cause

...doesn't seem to be a problem there.

Now, the problem I do see with allowing other alignments into the door is that not all alignments are equally restrictive. A lawful neutral character, for instance, can get away with being less merciful and compassionate. OTOH, a neutral good character doesn't have to worry about holding up law and order, just doing what he thinks is right.