Anybody else love Bards?

[Crothian]

Yea, bards are cool..

If you fix the way they cast spells
fix the skill points
and fix the way the musical ability works.

Other than that, they're way cool.

*smirk*

Except they cast spells fine, the muscial ability is okay, and the skill points while a little low are manageible.

 

[Decamber]

Of course I love bards! One of the reasons is that it's a class that proves that power isn't all. I like that very much.

Ahh.. remembers Athom...

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I love playing bards, and usually do in P&P and CRPGs. The only complaint I have is that bards are the only class in 3rd Ed. that *has* to spend precious skill points to use their class-defining ability. In the past, rather than boost the number of skill points bards get, I've just given them an automatic 1 pt per level in perform.

 

[Apok]

Except they cast spells fine,

Eh, not really. A Bard casts spells just like a sorc or a wizard does which isn't very Bardlike. Monte did a much better job with his alt.Bard in BoEMII, though he should've made more spellsongs. Using only the ones there just aren't enough.

the muscial ability is okay,

At higher levels their party-boosting abilities through their music are nigh-laughable since there are Divine and Arcane spells out there that can do the same thing only better. There are spells that help to augment this but require the use of extra books (R&R, R&RII, MagoF, Path of Magic, etc).

and the skill points while a little low are manageible.

Yeah, I'll agree with you there but giving them 6 + Int mod skill points certainly wouldn't have made the class overpowered.

 

[Crothian]

Eh, not really. A Bard casts spells just like a sorc or a wizard does which isn't very Bardlike. Monte did a much better job with his alt.Bard in BoEMII, though he should've made more spellsongs. Using only the ones there just aren't enough.

They cast very bard like. They need verbal compontes with everything. Montes changes where mostly in name and versatility, but actually weakend the spellcasting ability. The Bard's flavor in spells comes from the spell list.

At higher levels their party-boosting abilities through their music are nigh-laughable since there are Divine and Arcane spells out there that can do the same thing only better. There are spells that help to augment this but require the use of extra books (R&R, R&RII, MagoF, Path of Magic, etc).

There are Divine and Arcane spells that will out do any other class's ability. That's not the fault of the Bard.

 

[The Sigil]

I have a 6th lvl Bard I love his name is Caltros the Witty and has been reincarnated a few times...he has been in a PBEM campaign (remember that Sigil ),

I sure do... here we are, 17 months out from the last "pending update" post. Perhaps once I move (Nov 16th) I'll post an update and see who bites.

As for "who loves bards?"

I love bards. I love them so much, I wrote a sourcebook on 'em.

I'll let someone else shamelessly plug it - suffice to say it's undergoing a *major* revision and expansion once I pump out the Enchiridion of Treasures and Objects d'art. It's now 74 pages - my goal is to up it to at least 128 and hopefully 160 (and I think I have the ability to do so).

--The Sigil

 

[Apok]

They cast very bard like. They need verbal compontes with everything. Montes changes where mostly in name and versatility, but actually weakend the spellcasting ability. The Bard's flavor in spells comes from the spell list.

Which is why we need more spellsongs or, at the very least, more spellsong conversions. Damn you Monte!

There are Divine and Arcane spells that will out do any other class's ability. That's not the fault of the Bard.

At certain points in the game, true. However the other class's abilities aren't made useless due to the power of spells. In fact, in my current Epic Level game the fighters are the ones doing insane ammounts of damage (400+ easy) each round while the monk & fighter/rogue make an awesome tag-team. Our Mage & Cleric get their licks in but mostly they are there just to provide the heavy hitters with healing and a few buffs now and then. In the case of the Bard, his Bardic Performance abilities are supposed to be one of the things that balance him against the other classes so he doesn't become obsolete at higher levels. Fighters get tons of feats, so they never go out of style. Paladins can lay more smackdown on Evil than anyone else out there. Barbarians get their Greater Rage & DR which, at epic levels with a few well-chosen feats, make them monsters in combat. Rangers... well, nobody I know of has done a high-level ranger so I can't really say . The Rogues skills in finding & disarming traps makes them invaluable at any level and they aren't slouches in combat either with high sneak attack dice and some well-chosen feats. Monks just simply can't be killed at those levels and when combined with a Rogue it makes for a sick commando team. Druids, Clerics, Wizards and Sorcs are all primary spellcasters with access to lots of usefull spells for just about any occasion, so I don't think I need to go into detail here. Bards, well... they don't really have much of anything at higher levels to keep them viable with the other classes.

My only suggestion to alter this without making any radical changes (ala Monte Cook) was to take all the Performance abilities the Virtuoso PrC gets and just flat out give 'em to the Bard.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

The only complaint I have is that bards are the only class in 3rd Ed. that *has* to spend precious skill points to use their class-defining ability.

You think so?

Try playing a spellcaster without Concentration and Spellcraft.

Wulf

 

[Bonedagger]

I really like playing gnome illusionists. Does that count a little? I would be satisfied with a tiny yes.

Never been a bard.

I like playing with bards though. In many ways. Some good, some bad...

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

You think so?

Try playing a spellcaster without Concentration and Spellcraft.

Wulf

You mean, like a bard?

I said 'has to' not 'should'. A spellcaster can cast all day long without making a concentration check, and spellcraft is hardly essential for sorcerors or clerics. With casters, the player can decide based on experience and playing style how to allocate points to those skills. A bard, though, has to spend max out Perform through 9th level in order to do what bards do.