Anybody else up the damage when they up the CR?

[Solarious]

My guilty pleasure is to improve a monster's special qualities and it's attacks when advancing them. Why would I do this? Well, I certainly advance their CR if I give the more player-pummeling powers, but also consider the fact that an advanced creature's abilities aften grow less effective against PCs who are more likely to have spells and equipment to enhance their ability to resist them. This isn't always true: consider the fully advanced beholder who has eye rays with DCs that would scare the living bejessus out of anything in blasting range, let alone a fully advanced Half-Farspawn Beholder channeling the pure insanity of the Far Realms, but really.

Take a fully advanced devourer for example. The only real worry is it's trap essence ability: something on the order of a DC 38 Fortitude save (assuming ability points go towards Cha) or die. But once it's used that up, what will it do? The common undead hit point problem hounds it, making it fragile in combat, and many of it's signature spell likes it aquires from it's trap essence ability are underwhelming against the level 16-17 characters it is supposed to challenge. Ray of Enfeeblement? Yeah yeah... Lesser Planar Ally? Weak! Confusion? At least I don't have... say, a Horned Devil breathing down my throat with a stunning spiked chain routine and a 20' AoO range. Cruel DMs will add replace a few extraneous feats with Improved Trip and Combat Reflexes to make them into frightening battlefield controlers with a fly speed...

My Liege of the Pit, a fully advanced half-fiend devourer in development (I know the template illegal, but the picture I'm basing it on demands GREAT JUSTICE! ), is getting a big boost to it's spell likes so it befits a CR 20+ terror as it should (also a few tweaks to it's trap essence ability... and unholy grace to combat undead fragility... and a few of it's defences.... but that's another story).

Besides, look at the MM. The following monsters are variants on monsters, with abilities or advancements that don't come with hit die advancements: Nessian Warhound, Greater Shadow, and Dread Wraith. There is precident, however rare, even in Core.

So go ahead. Be evil.

 

[moritheil]

It's very interesting to see someone wrestling with the intangibles where there are no hard-and-fast rules. I personally just use feats and templates to increase nastiness when advancing NPCs/monsters.

Solarious - Didn't they make Unholy Toughness into a feat? High-CR undead shouldn't have hp problems any more, unless you as a DM want them to have such problems.

 

[Solarious]

They did? Probably in the Libris Mortis, which I don't have for immediate reference, and for which Crystalkeep doesn't list feats for (as they're for monsters). Well, I like Unholy Grace anyways for the save boost, which reduces Disintegrate and Destruction vulnerability by boosting all those saves by a lovely, lovely +12.

When boosting the Spell-Likes, I tried to stay in theme by sticking to debilitation spells. I ended up metamagicking a few lower level spells up to snuff to fill in the gaps where higher level spells were overpowering. Who likes a Quickened Eneveration every round? Even if the opposition has Death Ward up on everyone, a Liege of the Pit, as an undead, certainly enjoys the healing!