Anyone else out there with rule overload?

[BobTheNob]

Just poking around to get a feeling for how other might view this. Our group has (with some house ruling) eagerly embraced every new publication from woc like we just couldn't get enough.

(p.s. What follows is opinion. I am keen to here other views, and if you disagree with me, please say so, but dont flame)

But the latest set of publications (Players 3 especially, MP2 to a lesser degree) we found ourselves just saying "meh". In a game already so broad with options, yet more keep slapping on top and it just feels like we have reached a point where we are saying.....do we need more races and classes?

This game is already a-flood with more options than previous editions ever boasted, and when PHB3 came out, our group gave it the most lackluster reception of any text released and in the end, it wasnt that the races and classes were not good, it just, well, we already had so many to pick from, more didn't make a difference.

Don't even get me started of the breadth of paragons we have available.

The effect I am noticing is that, if anything, races, classes and paragons are just starting the bleed into each other, and overlap in purpose, loosing clarity.

It almost feels like I (meaning my perception of the game) have reached the limit of new races classes and paragons available, and all I really want from future material is refinement of what is already there as opposed to new options we just don't need.

So, is anyone else sharing this feeling, or am I a lunatic?

 

[john112364]

If you're a lunatic, then we're lunatics together. I agree with your views on PH3. I like the psionic classes, but the races and non psionic classes left me feeling meh about the rest. On top of this is the ever expanding and never ending errata. It pretty much made my books (especially PH1) useless except as a guide for staring out. I'm tempted to just play as is and ignore the character builder. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a fan of 4e, but the glut of rules and the headache of tracking conditions in combat can sometimes suck the fun out of the game.
I think I need a break. I should play something else so that I can appreciate DnD all over again.

 

[kaomera]

So, is anyone else sharing this feeling, or am I a lunatic?

Dunno. I'm pretty sure I'm a lunatic, but I've also been feeling this way since at least Adventurer's Vault and Martial Power where released. Not sure if that's part of my lunacy or not...

Thing is, in any given book there's usually at least a few cool options that I would have liked to have had previously (that could have replaced any of the previous stuff that I don't care about...). And as a DM the fact that feel more like I can safely ignore some (or even much) of the new options than in previous editions is cool. As long as the players stick to stuff that excited them, that's cool. But the minute a player grabs a class, race, or even a power or feat that they have no more real interest in than they think it ought to be cool, we can run into trouble. Because there's more and more stuff that I just don't know how to make shine, if that's going to be left up to me...

 

[KidSnide]

This game is already a-flood with more options than previous editions ever boasted, and when PHB3 came out, our group gave it the most lackluster reception of any text released and in the end, it wasnt that the races and classes were not good, it just, well, we already had so many to pick from, more didn't make a difference.

It almost feels like I (meaning my perception of the game) have reached the limit of new races classes and paragons available, and all I really want from future material is refinement of what is already there as opposed to new options we just don't need.

I'll take a counter-point. I don't care about the number of options that come out, but I really care about getting options that provide better rules for the characters that are already in my story.

For example, one of my PCs is an administrator/diplomat who uses sword and wand in battle. He was a rogue/wizard in 3.0 and tried at least half a dozen other 3.x builds before celebrating that the 4e bard fit his character concept. (Unlike 3e, the 4e bard is conceptually coherent without music or stirring speaches.) I have another PC who plays a telepath and it's nice to have psion rules instead of using a reskinned wizard or warlock. Similarly, I think skill powers are great for letter a character feel like they are *really* a master of the skill, other than by just having a high modifier.

So, sure, I'll agree with you that, post-PH2, there were enough options to play through 2020 without running out. (If you're a completionist who wants to play each class from 1-30, well... you're doomed.) But it's still nice to get new options so you can play a wider range of characters. When a player comes up with a character concept, it's nice to have rules that match.

-KS

 

[Boy Genius]

This has always been one of the problems with rpgs. Cash flow. They need to churn out new books on a regular basis to stay afloat.

Perfectly fine. If they didn't we wouldn't have a game to play.

The problem is over time the quality pool can get pretty shallow. I enjoy owning each book, because to me it's like buying food, lol.

That said, I don't think it would matter one whit if out of say, the PHB 2 I completely ignored the Deva. (which btw, I have)

These expansions are just options, and don't in any way change the core rules of the game. So I don't worry about adding them all. Our group picks and chooses.

Any rate, you're not alone out there in the Wastes, but don't feel like you've thrown money down the drain just because your current campaign doesn't use anything from say The Underdark book. Or it isn't using anything from Eberron.

 

[Samir]

The only major publication I didn't really like so far was PHB3. I don't think the classes were designed as well as they were in PHB2, and the Battlemind seems like a rules trainwreck. (Hopefully the July updates will remedy that, at least.)

However, I think there have been some standout releases recently--particularly the MM3, which is fantastic, and a significant upgrade over its 4e predecessors.

As for the rules updates, somebody did the math and found out that they changed a tiny fraction of a percent of the game. Personally, I welcome changes to existing material because it shows that they're at least willing to go back and correct mistakes rather than just spending all their resources on putting out new stuff.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I do not think you are alone, this has been a problem for at least two editions, and maybe more. I see no problem with picking your level and playing there. I, personally, stopped before PHBIII and, while I will buy further products, the PHBIII stuff jsut did not and does not appeal to me (and I am a psionic fanboy from way way back)

But I will buy things, like Dark Sun, and Tiles, and manye Essentials.

Still a lot for me ot buy and help out Wizards. But I see no obligation to buy it all.

 

[Gort]

I don't think too many options as far as classes go is a real problem. Your party is still only going to have five classes in it, who cares if it's five classes out of a choice of fifty or five classes out of a choice of ten? You still only need to know the rules for the classes you (or your players) are playing, it's the same as it was when only PHB1 was released.

I guess feats are open to everyone, but I find DDI makes those choices pretty simple for me.

 

[jbear]

I don't relate the vast sea of ever expanding options as a rules issue.

Personally, I find the rules so easy and instictive that I haven't opened a book to check rules in... in... in... sorry, I can't even remember how long.

As for the PHB3, well, I'm not attracted by the psionic classes, but I'm sure many are. Besides, that's kind of the shtick of Dark Sun, isn't it? And people seem pretty hyped about the release of Dark Sun.

As for the Seeker... well, it has 4 at wills. I think it has a lot of potential, but to date it is still out in the limited options wilderness compared to every other class.

The Runepriest... I love the Runepriest. It has 4 at wills too, but every single one is basically a 2 in one. As are its encounter powers. That makes it pretty attractive and intersting to me.

As for the races, I like the Minotaur. Always have.

Now... Hybrids. I LOVE Hybrids!!! I don't mind being a little bit weaker, in exchange for being able fill a wider spectrum of roles within the game. Runpriest/Fighter Hybrid = A Class secondary defender/leader who can shine in his own right, and make his friends hit harder and feel safer as the situation calls for. Yey Hybrids!

So the PHB 3 brought some pretty cool elements into the game from where I'm standing.

Would I like even more options, over and above those we have right now... well, there has been some mention of a Necromancer and Hexblade class spawning from the Shadow power source. They could be interesting additions.

I definitely think the Assassin badly needs some more interesting at-will powers. As does the seeker. Why not the runepriest at the same time? I'm sure the psi-classes will get theirs when they get their splat-book.

I guess what you are talking about is the overwhelming amount of options a player is faced with upon character creation. But i don't think that translates over to the table. Characters still have the same amount of feat and power slots. My main quarrel about the amount of feat options is that I don't have enough feat slots to fit all the one's I want in with the ones I 'need'. But that is the most minor of quibbles at best.

 

[Aulirophile]

I don't see a ton of rules, just a ton of options. Options strike me as good. Properly formatted I betcha I could put all of 4e's rules into less then 100 pages, the rest is options and fluff. I love me some options, as stated, so.

There have been very few rule changes. Less then half the errata is rules changes, tons of it is just clarifications. The PHB, the most errata'd book, is still 90%+ accurate.