Anyone else think Bakemono are HARD?

[Darklone]

Even if the Bakemono had surprise... First feat to get for reach weapon wielders is Combat Reflexes, e.g. you CAN make AoOs even when you are surprised and flatfooted (assuming you wield the spear).

The full attack option for the Bakemonos at -2 to hit... I don't think that's dangerous. Nearly all of my PCs don't leave the tavern with an AC below 17 (Studded leather for the high dex fellows, perhaps with buckler included, scalemail/chainmail plus shield for the low dex guys).

Honestly, the monsters can be lucky... but in a standard encounter it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Especially at low levels, the luck of the dice can make a dramatic difference to how encounters turn out. A couple of rounds of good rolls for one side and bad rolls for the other and it might all be over... as it sounds like in this case.

 

[Black Omega]

I never tried bakemono against 1st level characters but by third level the group's samurai were mowing through them about how I'd expect them to do against creatures of that CR. The bite is their main weapon, the claws only rarely hit against decent AC. Good AC, but few HP's so once you hit they are down fast.

 

[Archer]

It's bite is by itself nearly as rough as an Orc's Great Axe in terms of likeliness to hit and damage done.

Let's assume average AC for a first level character is around 15, then a full attack from a Bakemono does an average of 4.7 damage per round. Assuming the average attack bonus for 1st level characters is +2 (which is generous), and the average damage 7 (also generous), the PC's are doing on average 2.1 damage each in return. One thing is pretty clear. One on one, Bakemono will wipe out most 1st level PC's. So, three vs. four was probably too much for a first level party. Too much can go wrong. I would do the math as follows. Three Bakemono = 15 h.p. Average survival time = Two rounds. Average Damage Generated in Two rounds = 28 Likelihood of Player Death = Very High. Likelihood of TPK do to early PC death or poor luck = High.

The bite only averages 6.5 damage while an orc averages 9.5 damage. The orc does 50% more damage, that's not really comparable.

The usual minimum attack bonus for 1st level character is +2 with the average being +5 or so. Fighters with weapon focus, mw katana and 18 str have +7 to hit, barbarians have +2 to hit on top of that when raging. Better to figure 1 hit, 1 kill than average damage because minimum damage is usually 4-5. The highest bonus to hit for a 1st level character is +10-12 for someone with 20 str or dex and/or small and/or MW weapons with MW ammunition and/or buffs like bless (rare). A wizard will have +2 to hit with a thrown weapon for dex and that would be the worst attack in a 1st level party. One sleep spell still wipes a whole bunch of bakemono just like any other 1 HD creature.

The party is likely to get charge or flanking bonus which adds an additional +2 and a round of ranged combat is entirely one sided to the party's benefit.

A ghoul has just as many attacks but every attack can paralyze its victim which is as good as instant death if everyone is paralyzed and yes, ghouls are CR 1.

 

[Celebrim]

I started to write a lengthy reply to this, but I realized the whole thing could be summarized by a single excerpt: "usual...1st level character...mw katana and 18 str..."

Someone is playing by a whole different set of assumptions than I am, and I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Darklone]

Ok, my first level guys don't have MW katanas nor Strength 18 (usually).

But they use spells like Bless and a bards song and try to get as many bonuses to hit due to higher ground, flanking or similar things as possible. Plus one or two fighters or rogues as front liners with full defense while the rest of the group buffs up or takes advantage of Precise shot....

 

[Zhure]

Ok, my first level guys don't have MW katanas nor Strength 18 (usually).

All Samurai start with MW Katana and Wakizashi. I agree STR 18 is rare.

Greg

 

[kristov]

Stats

We used 28 point buy and I think the Samurai had

STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14

and some other stats. i realize if we had powergamed our asses off and gave everyone some 18's and nothing less than 10 - the characters are pretty tough.

 

[Archer]

14,14,14,12,12,10 gets you the most stat bonuses but not really where you need them. You are a little good at everything. Still should have had +6 to hit with flank/charge though. That stat array isn't a whole lot different than standard array. If either starting feat had improved fighting ability it would be an easier fight. I wouldn't call 16,14,14,10,10,10 powergaming your asses off.

That samurai should have AC 16 (14 on a charge), +4 (6) to hit and do 4-13 pts of damage on a hit, having 12 hp which guarantees sucking up 2 hits. Definitely capable of a straight up fight but a fair chance of misfortune.

I don't know why people think 18's are so unusual. If you do 32 pt buy probably 80% of players have an 18. Even the RPGA which is low power has 28 buy for Greyhawk and 32 pt buy for Dragonstar, FR and I think SW.

 

[Darklone]

Well, ok. With Weapon Focus this only means he has a 50% chance to hit on a charge but will probably be skewered to death by the full attack actions.