Anyone else think dragons are too powerful?
- Thread starter CruelSummerLord
- Start date
Lord Zardoz
Explorer
I disagree.
Dragons are the one creature that makes the most sense to have at the top of the monster food chain, outside of very specific and essentially unique creatures.
Also, given the various age categories, they are one of the most scalable.
As for the Dragonlance reference, most of the dragons in the War of the Lance were only adult, and only Gold and Silver had the polymorph ability. There were very large numbers of them, but that campaign was essentially founded on the premise of a large scale dragon war. It does not really make for a good baseline example. How often do dragons show up in the Forgotten Realms setting?
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Dragons are the one creature that makes the most sense to have at the top of the monster food chain, outside of very specific and essentially unique creatures.
Also, given the various age categories, they are one of the most scalable.
As for the Dragonlance reference, most of the dragons in the War of the Lance were only adult, and only Gold and Silver had the polymorph ability. There were very large numbers of them, but that campaign was essentially founded on the premise of a large scale dragon war. It does not really make for a good baseline example. How often do dragons show up in the Forgotten Realms setting?
END COMMUNICATION
WayneLigon
Adventurer
I like dragons pretty much the way they are, though they could use a serious upgrade in the physical damage arena. I don't mind the spellcasting ability since it's usually pretty minor. If I want a dragon with serious spellcasting capability, I just tack on levels of Sorcerer equal to the hit dice and up their Charisma a considerable amount.
If I want a ravaging cow-eating monster, I can either use a younger dragon that's still wanting to do things like that, one of the less intelligent breeds, or any of the many dragon-like creatures in the various MMs. I think in the next campaign I do, dragons are going to be basically large predatory animals; wyrms with no legs or wings. Their 'ecological niche' of large predatory treasure-hoarding magic-using critter will be taken over by sphinxes, or maybe tremendous nagas.
If I want a ravaging cow-eating monster, I can either use a younger dragon that's still wanting to do things like that, one of the less intelligent breeds, or any of the many dragon-like creatures in the various MMs. I think in the next campaign I do, dragons are going to be basically large predatory animals; wyrms with no legs or wings. Their 'ecological niche' of large predatory treasure-hoarding magic-using critter will be taken over by sphinxes, or maybe tremendous nagas.
kigmatzomat
Legend
Heh. My DL-based homebrew is filthy with dragons but over 6 years of 3e play the PCs have encountered less than a dozen, with the majority happening in the last couple of months, when they've started hunting outcast dragons. (21st level PCs)
In DL the dragons are more unique in part due to the politics, as well as the Orthlox curse. Politically you have ones attached to the Knights of Takhisis/Solamnia, the Ansaloni independents, the uncursed Taladian dragons, the cursed Orthlox Taladians, and the outcast dragons. The outcast dragons have some variant psychological illness instead of the typical curse, such as a black dragon that is claustrophobic instead of xenophobic.
Additionally, most dragons have a Dragon Mark. (Curse you, Hellcow! I introduced those to my game 1 week before Eberron material started showing up) Dragon marks are special tattoos that provide the dragon with a set of unique abilities. Each dragon can have only a single mark which can almost never be changed but it grows in power with age. Similar marks can provide different powers to different dragons. If two blacks were to have the Mark of Acid, one might deal double breath weapon damage while the other's breath weapon inflicts half damage even to acid-immune targets. Some Marks provide continuous power (Mark of Life: Fast heal 1) while others provide uses per day (Mark of Life: Heal 1/day).
It makes up for the relatively short list of usable items available to dragons. Plus it throws a big wildcard. The older the dragon, the better the chance of knowing which Mark they have but not necessarily which variant.
In DL the dragons are more unique in part due to the politics, as well as the Orthlox curse. Politically you have ones attached to the Knights of Takhisis/Solamnia, the Ansaloni independents, the uncursed Taladian dragons, the cursed Orthlox Taladians, and the outcast dragons. The outcast dragons have some variant psychological illness instead of the typical curse, such as a black dragon that is claustrophobic instead of xenophobic.
Additionally, most dragons have a Dragon Mark. (Curse you, Hellcow! I introduced those to my game 1 week before Eberron material started showing up) Dragon marks are special tattoos that provide the dragon with a set of unique abilities. Each dragon can have only a single mark which can almost never be changed but it grows in power with age. Similar marks can provide different powers to different dragons. If two blacks were to have the Mark of Acid, one might deal double breath weapon damage while the other's breath weapon inflicts half damage even to acid-immune targets. Some Marks provide continuous power (Mark of Life: Fast heal 1) while others provide uses per day (Mark of Life: Heal 1/day).
It makes up for the relatively short list of usable items available to dragons. Plus it throws a big wildcard. The older the dragon, the better the chance of knowing which Mark they have but not necessarily which variant.
CruelSummerLord
First Post
shilsen said:
As I've said before, I don't game. And I was asking this as much as an inquiry to see if anyone else felt this way. And it does seem to be something of a problem-dragons tend towards the BBEG end of the spectrum, and guys like frankthedm, green slime, and S'mon all have beefs of their own, whether it be with dragons becoming too powerful too fast, or simply being too common.
And it's interesting to note-how often in modules or other official products, are the dragons featured less than Adult in age? I myself can't recall ever seeing one like that, although to be fair I haven't read as many game products as other posters probably have.
Also, I have taken steps to make dragons weaker. In my "On the Dragons of the Flanaess: History, Culture and Nation" article on Canonfire, I specifically mention that not all dragons can speak or use magic-some of them really are those not-too-smart beasts that are content to laze around on their hordes and only venture out to snack on the odd maiden, although some of them certainly are the big, dangerous creations they have the potential to be.
I've just never seen a dragon that didn't require a high-level party to fight it. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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