D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

[Alexemplar]

And just as many don't.

Didn't say they didn't.

But the OP does. He asked if others do. Many do.

I commented that while I don't find the idea of a lore keeper with training in music too annoying. I think the lore keeper class automatically being the music class and automatically getting proficiency in instruments (over any other tools) and most often being portrayed as a lute playing wandering minstrel when that doesn't have to be the case is the silly part. I'd rather there be a College of the Song subclass or some such thing.

Not to keen on the strong Asian influence in DnD's premiere unarmed/mystic warrior class either. Among other things.

But OP asked for peoples' opinions on Bards.

 

[KahlessNestor]

Didn't say they didn't.

But the OP does. He asked if others do. Many do.

I commented that while I don't find the idea of a lore keeper with training in music too annoying. I think the lore keeper class automatically being the music class and automatically getting proficiency in instruments (over any other tools) and most often being portrayed as a lute playing wandering minstrel when that doesn't have to be the case is the silly part. I'd rather there be a College of the Song subclass or some such thing.

Not to keen on the strong Asian influence in DnD's premiere unarmed/mystic warrior class either. Among other things.

But OP asked for peoples' opinions on Bards.

Well, if you knew anything about history, east or west, you would know that music was considered an essential and foundational part of any truly educated person's repertoire. It was a core study going back to antiquity.

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[Alexemplar]

Well, if you knew anything about history, east or west, you would know that music was considered an essential and foundational part of any truly educated person's repertoire. It was a core study going back to antiquity.

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A lot of stuff was was included. It's not really a given that every scholar, lore keeper, speaker, and/or learned person was trained in musical instruments and functioned as a charming wandering minstrel.

 

[Afrodyte]

Quick question: why don't the people who find bards silly...just not play them?

 

[Immoralkickass]

Quick question: why don't the people who find bards silly...just not play them?

Obviously, because his party members can play one. Even though I don't think the Bard's concept is silly, doesn't mean I don't have any problem with them. I think they share too many spells with the other full arcane casters, and I'd prefer if they have more unique spells instead of Wizard spells. I mean, if a Wizard could learn those spells in a magic school, nothing is stopping a Bard from doing the same. Imitation is a form of learning, and they should have unique spells because they are a unique class, not some mini-Wizard that uses a musical instrument as arcane focus.

Then again, if you try hard enough, there's is always something to complain about in every class. Whether its Paladins for doing too much damage, Wizards for being too powerful, Warlocks for being edgelords, Fighters for being too bland, Rogues for constantly stealing the limelight, or Monks for their eastern mysticism/kung fu , every once in a while you will get a "I hate ____ class" thread.

 

[Aldarc]

This is one of those questions where the only real response is, "Go read the Kalevala, and then we'll discuss it."

Bard is unfortunately really disconnected from the tradition that inspired it.

One of the few mostly well done scenes in Peter Jackson's 'Lord of the Rings' - because it was mostly lifted directly from the books - is the Théoden speech before the Rohirrim charge the Pelanor fields. But there is one aspect of that scene that was not copied, which is, as they charge, they all break out in a battle song - think maybe the theme of Skyrim - and "slew as they sang". That idea of warriors singing as they slew their foes seems really incongruous and even ridiculous to modern viewers/readers, but it was very much essential to the way Northern Europeans viewed warfare in antiquity and the early dark ages. Their war gods were also gods of music. The two went hand and hand. The battle pipers of Scotland are one of the last remaining legacies of that, though you might consider a modern tankers preference for heavy metal when charging into battle to be the modern equivalent.

But step back a bit. While it's true we no longer associate soldiers with singing as they slay, no one would think of having a massive battle scene without a grand symphonic score. That's the magic of music that the ancient Bards were tapping into.

That reminds me of a scene in the film The Longest Day where you see a soldier playing bagpipes during the fighting of the D-Day invasion.

 

[KahlessNestor]

A lot of stuff was was included. It's not really a given that every scholar, lore keeper, speaker, and/or learned person was trained in musical instruments and functioned as a charming wandering minstrel.

They may not have functioned as a minstrel, but it is certain they were trained in music. It's part of the classical medieval trivium (grammar, logic, rhetoric) and quadrivium (arithmetic, geometry, music, astronomy) any educated person was trained in.

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[Alexemplar]

Quick question: why don't the people who find bards silly...just not play them?

They dont.

But they still encounter them and find them silly.

 

[Alexemplar]

They may not have functioned as a minstrel, but it is certain they were trained in music. It's part of the classical medieval trivium (grammar, logic, rhetoric) and quadrivium (arithmetic, geometry, music, astronomy) any educated person was trained in.

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Then they should get automatic proficiency in those related skills, spells that reflect them drawing magic from those sources, and be shown engaging in those activities in equal amounts- as they do for music. Or lose the base class associations with music and be able to select it as a subclass the way lore, valor, whispers, and other specific fields are chosen.

Like many other games derived from d20 (Star Wars, Fantasycraft, the One Ring for example) have done.

D&D has just decided to put more weight on the role of music and showing art of the the Band as a sly and/or jovial trobadour compared to other classes so that's the impression people walk away with compared to other classes.

 

[KahlessNestor]

Then they should get automatic proficiency in those related skills, spells that reflect them drawing magic from those sources, and be shown engaging in those activities in equal amounts- as they do for music. Or lose the base class associations with music and be able to select it as a subclass the way lore, valor, whispers, and other specific fields are chosen.

Like many other games derived from d20 (Star Wars, Fantasycraft, the One Ring for example) have done.

D&D has just decided to put more weight on the role of music and showing art of the the Band as a sly and/or jovial trobadour compared to other classes so that's the impression people walk away with compared to other classes.

Maybe that's because it is something that makes them unique and stand out against the other classes it sometimes resembles (fighters, wizards, rogues). Plus, you know, longstanding tradition in both history, fantasy, and D&D.

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