Anyone know of rules for running a tavern or inn?

[jasper]

BAR House Abraham

Prices
Ale 7 cp
Beer 8 cp
Mead 8 sp
Wine 9 sp – 12 gp
Whiskey 1 gp – 20 gp
Average drink 8 sp 6 cp
Meals 2sp – 20 sp
Average 11 sp
Rooms 12 sp + 6 sp per person total of 7 rooms

Floor 4 booths 4 tables Bar seats 6
Activity
Morning Floor d4 groups bar d3
Noon Floor d6 + 1 groups bar d6
Afternoon Floor d4 + 1 group bar d3
Evening Floor d8 + 2 groups bar d8
Group is 1d4 of people
Income from table is 2 gp per person bar income 17 sp per person

Rooms d6 are rent per night 1-75 % 1 person 76-00 1d4 people

Costs
Salary of Overseer 10%
Salary of other Labor 15%
Cost goods 55%
Lawful taxes 10%
Total lose -90%

Average Monthly Income before costs
Table ( 203 groups @2.5 people ) * 20 sp 10150 sp
Bar (140 groups @ 1.25 people) * 17sp 2975 sp
Room (74 rooms @1 person )* 12 sp 888 sp
(24 rooms *14.5 sp) 348 sp
total 14361 sp
income 1436.1 sp or 143 gp 6 sp 1 cp

This is for bar in one of modules . Assassin knot 1st edition.
Of course this high but I was planning them having to role play the bar and spend off plots .
So 144 gp per month was a good base before I started on chart for good or bad.

 

[Uller]

My only question is _why_ are you looking for this level of minutae? Do you delve down to this level for picking a lock? (what tool do you use, how do you use it? etc.) I presume that you don't know squat about picking a lock and if your rogue player announces he attempts to open a lock you assign a DC and say "Roll".

Just come up with a reasonable DC to make money based on the circumstances. Allow the players to add their most relevant skill to the roll or something. Success means a small profit. Failure means a small loss. Success by 10 or more means a larger profit and failure by 10 or more means a major failure of the business.

The point is, the more time you waste trying to allow your PCs (or NPCs) to run a business, the less time you have to plan and run _adventures_. D&D is not SimMedieval Life. It is an adventure game and the rules around economics and business are kept very simplisitic for exactly this reason.

Sorry if I seem a little harsh...not intended.

 

[am181d]

D&D is not SimMedieval Life. It is an adventure game and the rules around economics and business are kept very simplisitic for exactly this reason.

Well, D&D is an RPG. More specifically, the first RPG. You shouldn't be surprised that some people play it more for the role-playing than the game. Heck, the Sim games were first explained to me as "an RPG where you play God".

I've heard that in Everquest, they've added a lot of skills with no combat relevance, because girls like them. Skills like "hairdresser", as I recall. And those skills are used to make money in the game and let players spend their time working at a business rather than killing orcs. (Or whatever they kill in Everquest.)

As people in this thread have mentioned, there's a long tradition of detailing taverns, extending back to first edition (and I assume before). There's certainly nothing wrong with this approach to the game.

And while I suspect you were merely stating your personal preference, it sort of came across like you were dictating how people "should" play D&D. Please take this as a general rant on why there is no one way to play D&D, and not anything personal against you.

(For the record, I would spend five minutes estimating and be done with it.)

 

[Mark]

There are a lot of good tidbits of information in this thread but they don't necessarily help if your economy runs differently from the person giving the tidbit. Here's my (not necessarily) helpful advice.

I'd suggest running it as a profession skill check. Do this weekly. For Thorps make it even, Hamlets multiply it by 1 1/2, Villages by 2, Small Towns by 2 1/2, Large Towns by 3, Small Cities by 3 1/2, Large Cities by 4 and Metropolis by 5.

In any Large Town or larger, consider giving regular bonuses to places that have a good location (first Inn inside the gate, only Inn in town, etc.). Give seasonal or irregular bonuses based on other factors such as holidays or being at the tail end of cattle drives. Give penalties when the local economy is failing due to natural disaster or Tarrasque attack.

This final figure is divided by all of the investors. If they have a full time manager and are absentee investors, split that number with the manager, then divide by the investors.

The PH has a lot of figures for raw materials (food and drink) if you want to get that detailed (and the lists above look very useful for more). Adjust those figures in a few specific ways, such as if your tavern is in "wine country", the "bread basket", or the like.

Getting any more detailed would probably require fleshing out the economy of the whole region.

Just my initial thoughts on your situation...

 

[Uller]

And while I suspect you were merely stating your personal preference, it sort of came across like you were dictating how people "should" play D&D. Please take this as a general rant on why there is no one way to play D&D, and not anything personal against you.

Nothing personal taken. I knew people would see it that way.

I'm not telling Arravis how to play D&D. He (she?) can play it anyway he wants. I would just like to understand why one would want such a level of detail when (in my experience) that only gets in the way of the fun. Stick with the #1 rule of Dungeoncraft here...only detail what you have to.

Whether you play D&D mostly for the roleplaying or for a combat style hack n' slash game, it would be best to just have the tavern exist as a place for RP opportunity...it more or less runs itself. If you want to run it as some sort of medieval business sim down to the level where it matters how much firewood you use in a day, you are going to have to do a LOT of leg work to make seem remotely believable.

My game is a mix of RP and combat. If one (or some) of my players approached me with the idea of opening a tavern as a base of operations or some such, I'd come up with something like this:

I'd look at how much money they want to spend, come up with some reasonably sized and located establishment they could build or buy based on that. I'd populate it with some employees for them (unless they wish to RP the recruitment of those) and I'd set some DC for the successful operation of the joint. Modify based on PC actions and local events (if the PCs are gone for long periods of time, the DC goes up...same with a local war, plague or economic depression). Done...

Once the place is established, I'd place the PCs in it and provide suitable RP situations for in the tavern. Maybe they pick up good rumors from the road. Maybe they have a run in with local tax colletors, bureaucrats or bounty hunters...whatever. The point is, the running of such a business as part of the game could be a great opportunity for running the campaign, giving the PCs a place to call their own and a reason to do whatever it is they do, but RPing the details of running such an establishment would be like playing an RPG where the characters are police officers or soliders and instead of focusing on the interesting parts of those jobs (chasing down criminals or fighting the enemies of your country) you end up focusing on the boring part (filling out paper work and garrison life).

 

[Arravis]

I'm a DM and as a DM I see it my job to entertain everyone in my group, it's not to push my ideas of fun on the group. I try to modify my DM'ng style to the players desires and needs. One of the players runs an Inn/Tavern, she gets quite detailed about it and enjoys the mechanics of running the business. She has detailed inventory lists, she's made a menu for each season, we've detailed all the npc's that work there and she even has an accounting notebook to keep track of expenses, etc.

I had been DMin'g it that she made Xgp a month modified by the season. The X number was just pulled out of my butt really, it wasn't based on anything at all. She does alot of things to try to increase sales, save money, etc... Since she puts alot of effort into running her inn, I'd like to put an equal amount of effort in DM'ing it. Unfortunately I know next to nothing on this and that's why I came here.

So no, I'm not some a-hole DM that keeps tracks of every single tiny detail in order to screw over my players and spend more time doing that and less time actually RPing and creating a good story. I think from my previous posts and things I've uploaded here, many of you would know just the opposite. Anyway, I just like to make sure everyone in my group has fun, even if what they think is fun isn't exactly what I think should be fun.

P.S.: I'm a he btw

 

[elrichwizard]

I have to agree with Uller. If I were going to put much work into anything, it would be designing a system to simulate the RP events for the inn, lots of good fun and hooks to be had here. In fact if someone were to post such a system to this thread, I would steal it right quick.

Once the place is established, I'd place the PCs in it and provide suitable RP situations for in the tavern. Maybe they pick up good rumors from the road. Maybe they have a run in with local tax colletors, bureaucrats or bounty hunters...whatever.

And don’t forget the classic barroom brawl. Only, now the PCs are on the other side, trying to keep the NPCs from trashing their joint.

 

[Tcheb]

I agree with Uller - there's a certain level of detail for certain things that doesn't belong in DnD. But where that line is drawn is different for different people. I (as GM) want to run adventures, and tell a story. My PCs normally want to deviate from that story, and run their own stories (building a bar, or being the lord over some land, etc...). Both have their place. Thus, my simple set of rules to allow them to run their business, and if they want better results, they go adventuring (what I want).

I can imagine a campaign all about the PCs' tavern, and growing it from a beer cart to a walled keep serving interplanar travelers residing on it's own demiplane. If the business is your campaign, you'd want (maybe need) more detailed rules for it.

All a matter of what keeps everyone happy around the table and interested in the game.

 

[Arravis]

I have a street one, but I'm working on a Tavern one (I actually have 3 tavern ones, but not typed yet and not as extensive). anyway, enjoy it

Street Random Encounter chart. 1d100:
1. The avatar of a locally worshiped god has appeared in the area.
2. War! A war has broken out in the area, it could involve nearby countries or it could be orcs, goblins, etc.
3. A massive creature of power attacks (Dragon, Giant, etc.)
4. Supernatural weather. (Rains blood, moon changes color, etc)
5. A famous NPC from the realms
6. Dueling wizards or sorcerers! Best to get out of the way. (20% chance that a random spell will affect those nearby)
7. Polymorphed creature of power in human form, enjoying the sights and sounds.
8. Day: A vampire's ghoul, Night: a Vampire (25% chance he'll attempt to stalk one of the PC's)
9. Doppelganger begins to stalk one of the PC's!
10. Madman attacks the PC's.
11. A monster is wandering the streets, frightening and possibly attacking the locals.
12. Out of a nearby building, a person who has been wounded shuffles towards the PC's (30% chance that the person will die when he reaches the PC's)
13. A monster of some kind is using a darkened and abandoned alley as its den. (Roll a spot check, DC 18 to notice some tell-tale mark)
14. An adventurer (or adventuring group) with a cart filled with the head or body of a large monster. (20% chance that it's from a very rare or unusual creature)
15. A rare sight, a map merchant or a book merchant.
16. Two gentlemen are dueling. (30% chance that they are nobles)
17. PC's are nearly trampled by a train of horses with a large wagon. (Roll to dodge out of the way, DC 12, otherwise take 1d6 damage from being trampled)
18. A large crowd has gathered around a bard with an illusionist assistant are telling tales of old and the mage is casting spells to enhance and illustrate the story. (35% chance that the bard and the illusionist have rogues working the crowd)
19. A local rough challenges one of the PC's to a duel!
20. A press gang enlisting the undesirables from the street. They might try to "enlist" the PC's, dependent on their attire.
21. Squires are clearing the road for their master, a knight, to pass.
22. A peddler claims to be selling a assortment of magical items (5% chance that one actually IS a magical item)
23. The circus! A small movable circus makes its way along the street, entertaining all that they pass. (25% chance that rogues is working the crowd)
24. Nearby store is being robbed by 1d8 ruffians. (20% chance the town guard has already been called and are on their way)
25. PC's find a bag or chest on the ground. (Make a spot check at DC 18 to see it, roll for random contents)
26. Militia is searching nearby locals or buildings seeking either a stolen item or a criminal.
27. A messenger boy delivers letter to one of the PCs. (30% chance its either the wrong letter or never intended for the PC)
28. Thugs are harassing a local. (1d8 thugs)'
29. A mumbling beggar passes by; his words are in a strange language.
30. High-ranking priest with small group of supplicants passes by. (20% chance they'll be carrying a holy item of value)
31. Local official walks by PCs (50% chance that he will have 1d4 henchmen, 1d20, 1-10: petty official, 11-16: midlevel official, 17-20: high level official such as a judge, magistrate, mayor, duke, etc.)
32. A merchant selling unusual goods, such as alchemical materials, fireworks, etc.
33. Local is trying to heal his wounded mount.
34. A large caravan of drovers is taking up most of the street.
35. A group of merchants have put their tents up in a small sale-fair; all items are 40% off regular price! (30% chance that the goods are stolen)
36. Rogue has take notice of one of the PC's and begins to follow him to attempt a pickpocket or perhaps more. (Level of rogue: 1d20, 1-8 unskilled rogue, 9--14 midskilled rogue, 15-18 highly skilled rogue, 19-20 master rogue)
37. A street peddler running a gambling game.
38. A gang of youths hanging out and generally being a nuisance. (2d6 of them)
39. Local asks PC's help in carrying a heavy object. (5% chance that they will attempt to pick pocket)
40. The weather changes (1d20.1-10 Sunny, 11-13: windy, 14-15: drizzle (light snow), 16-18 rain (snow), 19 thunderstorms (snowstorm), 20: hurricane, tornado or other major weather)
41. Vendor walking around with a box strapped to him, selling his wears (1d6: 1: toys, 2-3:food, 4-5: drinks, 6: sweetmeats, 7: souvenirs, 8: something unusual)
42. Bard playing his instrument, a small crowd has gathered to watch his performance. (50% chance that he'll have 1-d4 minstrels with him and 30% chance that one of them will try to pickpocket the PC's if they stand and watch the performance)
43. A young child begins to follow the PC's; he seems quite impressed by them.
44. Rumor. PC's overhear some locals talking. (Listen check at DC 15)
45. An old beggar approaches the PC's and with a toothless grin asks them for a bit of copper. (10% chance beggar will attempt to pick pocket)
46. The militia or guardsmen making their rounds, they eye the PCs suspiciously.
47. "Rat On a Stick! That's right, for 1 copper, you too can have one of these delicacies! Yumm!", a beggar-merchant sells these, unfortunately. (In jungle climates, it's Iguana on a Stick)
48. PC's find a coin on the ground (Spot check at DC 17. 1d20, 1: a cursed coin, 2-10: 1 cp, 11-14: 1 sp, 15-17: 1 gp, 18-19: 1 pp, 20: a unique coin)
49. Food delivery boy rushes by the PC's, smells great!
50. An old person is struggling to move down the street, old age has been hard on them.
51. The PC's smell or hear something unusual (Spot check at DC 15)
52. Rats! Rats scurry around the PC's.
53. Children play and laugh around the PC's, frolicking in good fun. (10% chance one pick pockets a PC)
54. Someone bumps into the PCs. (1d20, 1-8: standard commoner, 10-13: unusual commoner, 14-15 thief, will attempt to pick pocket, 16-17: local official or noble, 18-19: adventurer or other classed person, 20: someone unusual)
55. A loud barking dog.
56. Birds fly overhead. (15% chance that one drops a "gift" on one of the PC's)
57. Someone stares intently at the PC's
58. Beggar woman asks if she can read one of the PC's fortunes for a silver. (15% chance that beggar will attempt to pick pocket)
59. Merchant running a game. Could be a game of strength, dexterity, trivia, etc.
60. A pretty girl or handsome man winks or blows a kiss at one of the PC's. (Roll for comeliness)
61. A small animal brushes up against the PC's. (1d6, 1-3: cat, 4-5: dog, 6: something unusual)
62. A merchant with a cart is selling goods.
63. A lady of the night tries to offer her wares to a PC. (Roll for comeliness, 20% chance she'll attempt to pick pocket)
64. Prophet or religious zealot is preaching to the people in the streets, rather loudly.
65. Warriors practicing their fencing.
66. A local seems to recognize one of the PC's, they either know him via a acquaintance of by reputation
67. Farm animal on the loose! Some scared animal is being chased by its owner, makes for quite a raucous.
68. Jugglers, sword-swallowers, fire eaters and their ilk performing in the street (15% chance that one will attempt to pick pocket)
69. PC's witness a crime (Roll a spot check, DC 18 to see crime. Crime is, 1d20, 1-12: minor, 13-16: medium, 16-19: serious, 20: horrendous)
70. A local politician is giving a speech.
71. Guardsmen with a prisoner walk by. (Prisoner is: 1d20: 1: wrongfully imprisoned 2-10: standard thug, 11-14: skilled rogue, 15-16: a monster, 17: master rogue, 18: wizard or sorcerer, 19: a very powerful monster, 20: an Outsider or other unique.)
72. A person with a large stack of books is plodding down the road, unfortunately the large stack of books in his hand block his view and he is about to run into the PC's. (40% chance of being caster, otherwise it's a local official, errand boy, scholar, etc)
73. PC's witness a local guardsman struggling with a criminal whom he tried to apprehend.
74. Local bully claims the path as his own and attempts to extort money from the PC's. (50% chance he'll have 1d6 henchmen)
75. A cart has fallen over with a broken wheel, goods are strewn on the floor as the cart owner desperately tries to put all the items back and fix the wheel.
76. A lone orc, gnoll, goblin or such creature is walking the streets, many of the locals stare, some might be getting ready for action.
77. PC's hear a scream in the distance.
78. Bounty Hunter looking for his "client".
79. Strange lights and sounds come from a building nearby.
80. PC's find something from antiquity. An ancient coin from when these streets were young, an old ring, or some other such archeological artifact. (spot check, difficulty 20)
81. A woodland animal not normally found is civilization is wandering the streets, frightening and possibly attacking the locals.
82. PC's hear a whisper from a seemingly long abandoned building nearby. (Roll Listen to see if the hear it, DC 16)
83. PC's find a dead body.
84. A loud horn is blown nearby, as a local building has been robbed and search parties go in search of the thief.
85. Fire! A nearby building has caught on fire!
86. A visiting dignitary or ambassador with a large train of servants and horses take up most of the road.
87. An odd looking fellow that seems a bit lost. (Point of origin. 1d20, 1-4: Kara-Tur, 5-9: Thay, 10-14: The far eastern empires (Mulhorand), 15:-19 the far southern empires, 20: an Outsider)
88. Secret door! (Make a spot check at 22 difficulty to notice a very well hidden secret door in a nearby building)
89. The earth trembles slightly.
90. A caster looking for one of his small experiments that has escaped.
91. Vengeance! A relative or friend of someone the PC's have killed has tracked them down to exact vengeance.
92. PC's witness an assassin about to attempt to kill a target. (Assassin's Hide in Shadows vs. the PC's Spot check)
93. Rival guilds or houses are attacking each other, a small battle ensues.
94. Undead rise up!
95. A powerful individual, such as an elder vampire, lich, ultralith, very high level caster, or such pass by. The PC's have a chance to sense the power of the individual. (Roll a wisdom check, DC 20, those that can cast have a +2 to their roll)
96. A magical opening appears before the PCs, someone steps out. (1-9 Wizard, 10-14 sorcerer, 15-16 psionicist, 17-20 Outsider)
97. A wizard's summoning, creature creation, or undead has gotten out of his/her control and is rampaging through the street.
98. Natural disaster!
99. Underdark denizen raid! (1d20, 1-16: Drow, 17-20: Illithids with Umberhulks)
100. Yikes, I don't even want to know.

 

[Tcheb]

Arravis - I love tables like that. Randomness is where it's at! I think I'll use that in this weeks session.

In regards to number 47, I once gave my PCs a magic item that was a dead rat on a stick. When they said the command word, the rat opened it's mouth and gave a quiet growl. It became the party symbol.