I'm interested in finding out how frequently people use the Attack of Opprotunity rules in D20 Modern and it's addtions (D20 Future, etc). I've run two modern style games (one in Traveller, the other in Dragonstar) and in the 50 or so sessions had a player call an AoO only once. So I'm thinking of dropping the AoO rules. But am curious as to how much others use them.
AoO in D20 Modern?
- Thread starter tjoneslo
- Start date
Ranger REG
Explorer
There is rarely a moment where characters are in melee. It always start up as a gunfight, with a heavy weapon and/or grenade launch in-between. But when there is one, they try to take advantage of AoO when the opportunity arise.tjoneslo said:
DwelleroftheDeep
First Post
Maybe it's my Demonic enemies (Giant monsters with huge reaches) but it seems like my PC's are always engaging the enemy at close range, it'a always my PC's who are the one's drawing AoO's in any case. Occasionally a human mook will screw up and draw an AoO from either a monster or one of PC's, he usually doesn't last long after that.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
I've never been in or run a Modern game where nobody has wanted to use melee attacks. Melee is popular and fun, and so AoOs do come up.
I've made a house-rule for my campaign - you can't make an AoO if you're not proficient with a weapon, and firearms are treated as exotic/improvised weapons when used as melee weapons. This keeps gunslingers with Strength 10, no Melee Smash and no Weapon Finesse from making totally useless melee attacks if someone rushes by them.
The party I run now has a martial artist and a brawler in it - the latter draws AoOs, and the former gets to use them on occassion.
I've made a house-rule for my campaign - you can't make an AoO if you're not proficient with a weapon, and firearms are treated as exotic/improvised weapons when used as melee weapons. This keeps gunslingers with Strength 10, no Melee Smash and no Weapon Finesse from making totally useless melee attacks if someone rushes by them.
The party I run now has a martial artist and a brawler in it - the latter draws AoOs, and the former gets to use them on occassion.
genshou
First Post
IME, AoO shows up more in d20 Future starship combats than it does in personal combat. Even if the PCs are engaged in melee, the only things they're likely to do that draw an AoO are fire ranged weapons and use certain skills (such as Treat Injury) when within a threatened area. Mostly it shows up against larger foes (such as dire elephants or Tyrannosaurs).
Generally, my PCs are smart enough to avoid them, so they show up at least once a combat in starship battles (more often in fleet battles, but not usually the PCs' ships or the ships they are directly engaged with), or once every two or three combats otherwise.
Generally, my PCs are smart enough to avoid them, so they show up at least once a combat in starship battles (more often in fleet battles, but not usually the PCs' ships or the ships they are directly engaged with), or once every two or three combats otherwise.
Its your campaign, but really it takes absolutely no skill to pistol whip someone nor to use a longarm as a "ram". Swinging a longarm like a club should get a penalty due to weight distribution though. And really, how bad is a Gunlinger going to hit something with a d4 pistol whip or a d6 longarm smash with a Str 10 anyway? Might get lucky and foil a Grapple every now and then, but that's about it...
genshou
First Post
Ah, I forgot about grappling in my post above! Scuffling is common in modern-day fights when one party seeks to prevent another from performing certain actions (such as using an assault rifle). Under these circumstances, an AoO in personal combat would be more likely. But my party hasn't "discovered" the utility of grappling yet. Perhaps it's time to teach them...Andur said:
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Andur said:
Cars don't explode in real life like they do in Modern. IMC they explode. They don't have to be logical rules, just consistent.
No, that wasn't my problem. My problem is that the d4 pistol whip is useless. Letting it be used as an AoO just adds time to the game as the attack virtually always misses and deals 2 or 3 damage.
I let the bayonet do more damage IMC (and it's not a double weapon due to the houserule). If you spend the feat slot (Archaic WP) on it, it probably means you want to use it that way, and have the ability scores/talents/whatever to make it actually useful.
I use 'em, and they come up in the big fights on occasion, and in the little fights pretty regularly -- someone moving by someone else, that kind of thing.
Only change I've made with respect to pistol whips is that you can, once per round as a free action, declare whether your gun is being used to line up a shot, or to prepare for a pistol-whip attack. If it's being used to line up a shot, you aren't treated as being armed in terms of pistol-whip attacks, so you don't get to take an AoO if somebody runs past you.
As it works out, it doesn't completely eliminate them, but it does cut down on them. For example:
Round 1:
Move to draw gun (defaults to shooting style)
Attack to shoot gun
Free action to have gun in pistol-whipping position
If somebody runs by him now, he can pistol-whip them.
Round 2:
Free action to switch to ready-to-shoot mode
Move to grab some cover
Attack to shoot gun
If somebody runs by him now, he can't pistol whip them, since he's in shooting mode
Round 3:
Attack to shoot gun
Free action to have gun in pistol-whipping position
If somebody runs by him now, he can pistol-whip them.
And most of the time, my players, who are more roleplayers than minmaxers, will just say "I'm not switching to pistol-whip mode. I'm shooting stuff, and that's that."
Only change I've made with respect to pistol whips is that you can, once per round as a free action, declare whether your gun is being used to line up a shot, or to prepare for a pistol-whip attack. If it's being used to line up a shot, you aren't treated as being armed in terms of pistol-whip attacks, so you don't get to take an AoO if somebody runs past you.
As it works out, it doesn't completely eliminate them, but it does cut down on them. For example:
Round 1:
Move to draw gun (defaults to shooting style)
Attack to shoot gun
Free action to have gun in pistol-whipping position
If somebody runs by him now, he can pistol-whip them.
Round 2:
Free action to switch to ready-to-shoot mode
Move to grab some cover
Attack to shoot gun
If somebody runs by him now, he can't pistol whip them, since he's in shooting mode
Round 3:
Attack to shoot gun
Free action to have gun in pistol-whipping position
If somebody runs by him now, he can pistol-whip them.
And most of the time, my players, who are more roleplayers than minmaxers, will just say "I'm not switching to pistol-whip mode. I'm shooting stuff, and that's that."
Just a note, if you don't like AoO's, Spycraft 2.0 has a very good alternative.
If you do something like using a skill or drinking a potion (or whatever) in combat, you're considered flatfooted until your next turn comes around.
I think it's cool and feels better to me. It can also be a damn sight more lethal and gives a chance for high defense critters/characters to get hurt.
If you do something like using a skill or drinking a potion (or whatever) in combat, you're considered flatfooted until your next turn comes around.
I think it's cool and feels better to me. It can also be a damn sight more lethal and gives a chance for high defense critters/characters to get hurt.
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