D&D 4E AoO's are still in 4e

[GoodKingJayIII]

Such as?

There's a short list, but it was also intentionally vague. There's actually a lot of leeway left up to the GM, which I like. But generally, a lot of things that did provoke AOOs no longer do (e.g., using a ranged weapon in melee.)

But that's the baseline list from 3E, too. The additions are in things like the spcial attacks rules (grapples, sunder, etc, etc).

If I recall correctly, the Grab/Grapple actions do not provoke attacks of opportunity in Saga. Sunder doesn't really exist in Saga. (That's basically targeting a possessed object and attacking it, which is really difficult to do.)

Disarm is interesting. Pretty standard rules for disarming. Attempting a disarm does not provoke an AOO according to the AOO rules. However, it does note under the Disarm rules that your opponent gets to attack you if you attempt a disarm, unless you have the Improved Disarm feat. So while it's not technically an AOO, the intent is the same.

But Saga is a different game. And while I'm sure we'll see some crossover when 4e comes out, I have a feeling it's going to look pretty different in a lot of ways.

 

[mmadsen]

If I recall correctly, the Grab/Grapple actions do not provoke attacks of opportunity in Saga.

In reality -- which we may or may not care about -- this would be the one special attack that would definitely incur an attack of opportunity.

 

[mhensley]

That's largely an artifact of tripping ignoring hit points.

And that's what I don't like about it. Nothing in combat should go around hit points (except spells).

If you allow special attacks like this, then you need to go full out and go with called shots and different damage depending upon location of hit. If I can trip you, why can't I hit you in the eyes and blind you? Why can't I injure your arm and make it useless? Why can't I hit you in the head and knock you out? Oh, I can? But only after bleeding you of all your hit points.

 

[mmadsen]

And that's what I don't like about it. Nothing in combat should go around hit points (except spells).

I'm not sure spells should go around hit points either. All sorts of oddities enter the game when we use hit points to reflect toughness rather than plot-protection.

 

[Li Shenron]

Actions provoking an AoO could be reduced to:

- moving out of a threatened square OR moving out of a threatened AREA* (to avoid getting past enemies for free)
- making a ranged attack (to avoid ranged weapons to be used as melee)**
- cast a spell

Everything else may be realistic, but it's a PITA.

*don't know which would be best, but the second is simpler IMHO
**could be substituted with "no AoO, but suffer a -4 to use a ranged weapon when inside a threatened area"

If we actually remove the 2nd and the 3rd, we can also remove 5ft step completely.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

In reality -- which we may or may not care about -- this would be the one special attack that would definitely incur an attack of opportunity.

Like I said, I could easily be misremembering because nobody in my game really cares about grappling. But yeah, I agree. I can see why it might be cut however, because grapple is convoluted enough as it is.