Applying Half-dragon template to human fighter?

[Wolf72]

A troll rogue 4 has 6d8 + 4d6 hit points

A half-dragon troll rogue 4 has 6d10 + 4d6 hit points

See what I mean? Class hit points are unaffected by your race.

--Racist Spikey

I think that your rogue example is in error, it should be 6d10+4d8 ...

it just doesn't change one type of HD it changes all of them.

 

[Chacal]

I think that the TRUE ECL of a half-dragon is different at lower levels than higher levels.

This is truly the heart of the problem with most of the ECLs ... playtest them at different levels, and you end in different ECLs ...


Chacal

 

[SpikeyFreak]

I still think you are all wrong.

Templates affect the race, NOT the class.

Your class determines your hit die size, not your race (for 1HD humanoids).

They are two comlpetely separate hit die types.

--Stubborn Spikey

 

[Wolf72]

I don't know why or how ...

but I still think you're wrong

after all humans, elves, and dwarves aren't races ... they're templates ... or more specifically template-races.

(hold on a sec, I'm gonna check fight-club and see what they have ... the bastards are probably gonna support you!)

Wonderful, examples of BOTH!!!!

A. the poor little kobold gets the increase (both the ranger and sorceror HD are bumped up)

B. the other 2 don't. Of course the others get their monster HD (which is a form of class too, especially in regards to skill points) bumped up but not their class HD.

template affects race not class? I'm gonna restate that to support my own thoughts.

Templates affect or modify what the template says it should, not based soley on race or class.

[edit: bad example/arguement ... shot down by spikey freak]

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Re: I don't know why or how ...

... of course you could take it a step farther and say that the new 1/2-dragon no longer is [insert race] but is now dragon (as per the template) and just a d12 for all of its hp.

That still wouldn't make a dragon fighter get more than d10 for its fighter class levels.

--Adamant Spikey

 

[Wolf72]

why not? ... the template simply says the ... oops you're right on that.

(will go back and edit)

the template doesn't saying anything about race/class ... simply the HD type is increased by one (to a max of d12 ... why the DMG adds in +1hp for barbarians, I'm not sure)

 

[SpikeyFreak]

I'm searching for a rule that relates to this now.

I don't really know why I think it should be that way. Class hit dice are set. There aren't any mechanics (other than possibly this one) that change class hit die size.

When you are a half-dragon, that is your race. Class hit dice are separate from race. They aren't affected by race in any other situation, why would they here?

--Looking Spikey

 

[Wolf72]

naughty wizards!

yet the kobold example is throwing both of our arguements out the window!

idea: race changes ... if you are a template race then your HD is based on class so that is what gets changed (the human fighter in the previous posts would get the d12 HD)

if you are of a monster-class then your monster HD changes (since that is your racial HD)

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

I'm searching for a rule that relates to this now.

I don't really know why I think it should be that way. Class hit dice are set. There aren't any mechanics (other than possibly this one) that change class hit die size.

When you are a half-dragon, that is your race. Class hit dice are separate from race. They aren't affected by race in any other situation, why would they here?

--Looking Spikey

I think you are exactly right in all counts.

There is no precedent that I know if. And I would agree with you that it is silly to make this kind of change for a template.

But, that is what they did.

Forgive me if I tease just a little, but your position that it would not apply to classes seems to presume that WoTC would not do anything weird. Probably not a very safe basis.

I would think just a simple +1 HP per HD would be better. But they did not ask

 

[SpikeyFreak]

From the SRD:
Note that if the creature acquires a character class, it improves according to its class, not its type.

That's the only think I can find that even remotely addresses the topic in the core rules, and it doesn't really support my arguement too well.

And you can't take examples from WotCs web site or from dragon magazine because they don't go throught the same editing/testing process that the rule books go through.

From the wen enhancement for S&F:
Feel free to alter these statistics to suit your own campaign. The first block shows complete statistics for a human 6th-level fighter/1st-level weapon master. You can make a 5th-level fighter/1st-level weapon master, but then the character loses the extra attack and that important extra feat that comes at 6th level. The other blocks show additions to the statistics that result from the evolution of the NPC.

Weapon Master, Ftr6/Weapon master 1: CR 7; Medium-size human; hp 57; Init +6 (Improved Initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 15 (+1 shadow studded leather); Atk +10/+5 melee (2d4+2/x3 crit, guisarme), +7/+2 ranged (1d4+2/19-20/x2 crit, throwing dagger); SV Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +3; Str 14, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 7.

You really can't try to extrapolate the rules from the stuff on their site.

But if you must, these support my way of thinking:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/fc/fc20000101c

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/fc/fc20020301a

And this one goes against it:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/fc/fc20010427a

In any case, someone should email the sage. He doesn't like to respond to me.

--Searching Spikey