Appropriate ECL for 10 players?

[plunoir101]

OK, I have a few campaigns under my belt and I know the majority of the rules. Recently two groups of friends decided to ask me (within the same week) if I could run a campaign for them. I said "hell with it" and pooled both groups together.

The group ranges from veterans to newbies and the party is currently lv2.

Is there some kind of formula to figure out what CR is appropriate in these situations?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dandu]

Yes, but the formula is not very accurate and the CR system is screwy to begin with. You have to take into account your player's capabilities and the strengths of the monsters when designing an encounter instead of just using the formula.

 

[radmod]

I agree with dandu. I seem to remember finding it somewhere but realizing it didn't work and scrapping it for my own experiences. The standard Encounter Level is based on the standard four characters with four encounters. Thus it doesn't translate well into large parities, and, yes, the CR system seems to be ambiguous, sometimes.

One thing to keep in mind though is that you might be tempted to raise the EL by putting in monsters with higher CRs. While the party might be able to handle the encounter, the higher CR may translate into an ability to easily kill one or more party members. For an extreme example, you might be tempted to think a party of 10 PCs at 2nd level could handle what would be a 'very difficult' encounter for a party of 4 PCs (say EL 5). Yet, a very young (CR 5) red dragon's breath weapon could easily kill a 2nd level mage. Likewise, a Dire Lion (CR 5) on a charge attack could put down a front level fighter in one shot. I've found for large parties it's better to add more bad guys than bigger bad guys (though I would make them slightly bigger).

 

[HoboGod]

Well, this site provides an easy way to calculate your party level with 10 players. However, as mentioned above, it gets kinda screwy. Normally when I have a group of players that don't lend itself nicely to the kind of encounters I'm normally running, I tend to focus on role playing until I get the hang of it... but role playing with 10 players seems just as daunting! You might have to suck it up and control armies of monsters just to do a game like this.

 

[frankthedm]

Lots of foes with mid to low damage potiential.

 

[Jhaelen]

Lots of foes with mid to low damage potiential.

This!
My 3e group has nine players, so it's a similar situation. It's doable but every combat will take a long time, especially at higher levels (my group's been hitting level 15 recently).

The main problem of the foes is dealing with the large number of actions the pcs have. I'd also recommend to use a mix of monsters and/or send them in several waves. I found the 4e concept of monster roles quite helpful when designing my encounters.

Again, it's a tricky business, and there's a lot more to think about than ECL.

 

[parinho7]

d20 Encounter Calculator :: Pen, Paper, & Pixel

 

[aboyd]

I prefer this encounter calculator:

Encounter EL & XP Calculator 4.01

Mostly it's the same code, but it does seem cleanly organized to me, and with lots of explanatory text.

Anyway, regardless of which calculator you use, the rest of the gang here is correct: with 10 characters every calculator you find will tell you they can handle extremely difficult challenges, but it's not always true.

For example, the calculators we've linked to all say that you could pit them against 5 CR 5 enemies as a "Very Difficult" challenge. That's 5 young dragons, for instance. That's a recipe for everyone to die within 2 rounds. So don't trust the calculator for stuff like that.

Instead, as others mentioned, use the calculator to figure out a reasonable match for *many* low CR challenges. If you use the calculator to see if the PCs can handle one CR 6 enemy, the calculator will be off. But if you use the calculator to see if the PCs can handle six CR 2 enemies, you'll get a more accurate read.

High CR enemies will have high-damage attacks that insta-kill low level characters. So instead of powerful single or paired enemies, pit them against groups of low-CR enemies. I would probably cap it at CR 4 for now, and when they hit level 3, I'd cap it at CR 5, and when they hit level 4 I'd cap enemies at CR 6. After that, it's far more open-ended. 10 level 5 characters will probably be able to overwhelm many difficult foes (assuming there are a couple level 5 wizards or clerics in the party, as they will have gained access to level 3 spells, which brings the group to a whole new tier of power).

Your bigger problem is what happens at the real-world table with 10 players. You need to realize that if you limit each player to only 3 minutes for his or her turn, that still means each player will have to wait nearly thirty minutes to take a turn. If even 1 or 2 players starts in with rules questions or has extra attackers to run (from animal companions or the leadership feat or from summoned critters), it's going to bog down fast. You will end up with people literally placing their heads on the table and sleeping.

So if I were you, I'd establish rules right up front: if you don't have your actions ready to go on your turn, you suck for delaying everyone else; if you take more than 2 minutes, you suck for delaying everyone else; if you create a character that has lots of minions, you suck for delaying everyone else, etc. Just MHO, of course. Good luck!

 

[HoboGod]

I was reading Save My Game: Twelve's a Crowd earlier and thought the OP and thread followers might benefit from the read.

 

[Uder]

I prefer this encounter calculator:

Encounter EL & XP Calculator 4.01

My particular favorite version of the same thing is similarly organized, but easier on the eyes.