Appropriate use of Spot check

[noretoc]

As I said earlier. That penalty is assuming that a spot check needs to be made in the first place. If you dm calls for a spot check to spot something at 5' and then modifies by distance, then you are reading things into the rules that do not exist. In the PHB on page 62 there is a great sentence(or two). it says "Remember, not every use of a skill requires a skill check. Performing routine tasks in normal everday situation is generally so easy, no skill check is required" Now flying 400 may not be a normal situation, nor is it one that would diminish a character's eyesite. It a situation came up where the character would have to make a spot check while he was on the roof, they I could see the modifier for distance, but certainly on in this case.

Even the spot skill says this. IT say use this skill when trying to spot somthing that is trying not to be seen. Also something might not intentionally be trying to hide, but may be difficult to be seen. It doesn't say use this skill to spot anything or be blinded by inattention....

 

[Jhulae]

Exactly. If two guards are walking their perimeter and not attempting to hide or move stealthily from tower to tower (or whatever) there's no need to roll. The spotting distances are usually pretty long for most open terrain.

Maybe the OP should ask the DM if the players should start making balance checks to walk up and down stairs or listen checks when someone is talking to them... it's basically the same thing.

 

[Stalker0]

I'll do what I always do when I see threads like this, I lament the loss of the 3.0 rules in this situation. They handled it so much better.

You made a spot at the encounter distance, the DC was 20 + modifiers like size, camoflague, light conditions, etc. IF you made it, you saw the person at the encounter distance. If you don't, you AUTOMATICALLY see them at half that distance. Quick clean and simple.

 

[javcs]

I'll do what I always do when I see threads like this, I lament the loss of the 3.0 rules in this situation. They handled it so much better.

You made a spot at the encounter distance, the DC was 20 + modifiers like size, camoflague, light conditions, etc. IF you made it, you saw the person at the encounter distance. If you don't, you AUTOMATICALLY see them at half that distance. Quick clean and simple.

I thought the auto-spot at half of the initial distance if you failed the first spot check was still in the rules ...

 

[Delta]

I agree, the rules in the 3.0 DMG handled this situation (at what point do you see non-hiders?) very nicely. It would be a Spot DC 20 at about 400 feet (6d6x20), or automatic at half that.

 

[Bad Paper]

The example in my group was that a player was flying above a fort and there were 2 monsters walking on the roof. The monsters were just patrolling and were making no attempt to hide. The character was about 400 feet in the air but was told he could not see the creatures due to the distance. The spot DC was increased by 1 for every 10 feet (per the rules according to the DM), so the DC was very difficult if not impossible. The ruling does not seem correct to me.

At best he could have been told that "there is movement on the roof," depending on the contrast between monster and roof. If the monsters are tiny black cats on a black roof, then he gets nothing. If they are gargantuan blue dragons, then I might toss him a bone.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you dm calls for a spot check to spot something at 5' and then modifies by distance, then you are reading things into the rules that do not exist.

I once had a DM call for a Spot check when we walked into town on a bright sunny day. I had a +10 modifier, but I rolled badly - total 12 or so.

I walked straight into the burly innkeeper who was outside sweeping his frontage and nearly provoked a violent incident. I 'didn't see him', apparently.

I didn't play with that DM long

-Hyp.

 

[Christian]

It's in the spot skill description, and again in HoB (I think) with modifiers for groups of creatures.
DC is +1 per 10ft, 400ft/10ft=40, +/- size, circumstance, and any other appropriate modifiers.

I never said that it made sense, and in fact, I said that I would probably assign bonuses to the spot checks if they stood out against their surroundings. Assuming, of course that a spot check was called for.

As the Man in the Funny Hat said, the rules don't always work.

They work more often if you fully read them. Since it's been alluded to, but not quoted, in this thread, I'll do the typing work here:

SPOT (Wis)
Use this skill to notice bandits waiting in ambush, to see a rogue lurking in the alley, to see through a disguise, to read lips, or to see the monstrous centipede in the pile of trash.
Check: The Spot skill is used primarily to detect characters or creatures who are hiding. Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn't intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it ... The Dungeon Master may call for Spot checks to determine the distance at which an encounter begins.
(PHB 3.5 pg. 83)

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

As the Man in the Funny Hat said, the rules don't always work.

Not that they don't always work, though that is true as well, but that that don't always apply to everything. Rules should be used when you need them, not whenever you possibly can.

 

[newgrace]

I could see making opposed spot checks to see which group sees the other first. That would give the guards a chance to hide/react before.

Funny incident, I had a character with a base -6 listen, and with other negatives, would have trouble hearing people talking. I played him as very absent minded, but the point is, he could fail a 0 on a listen check, and with a very poor roll, could fail the -10 check so he wouldnt even hear a battle. Funny times.