Aragorn and spellcasting

[billd91]

All spells are magic. Not all magic is spells. While I may not agree with your point about magic either, I can't let this go here.

And while not all magic being spells is true, it hardly prevents gamers or game-designers from interpreting Aragorn's use of the healing plant as casting a particular spell with a particular material component. But like I said, it's certainly not the only interpretation of what is going on. It is one of several that are credible.

 

[satori01]

Fusangite, if you feel like the D&D spell system can never be endowed with the flavor of Lord of the Rings, then you are welcome to your opinion. Given Tolkein's well documented dislike of modern industry, I do not think I would associate Elven healing Lore with something as simple as saying Elves and Numenorians as being MDs in a world of wise women and simple herbalists.

Gandalf is not possesed of better tech, he is possesed of a deeper understanding of the nature of the world, he is possesed of lore, and I think one can say Lore=magic. Your opinion might differ and you are welcome to it of course.

 

[mossfoot]

Comparing LOTR to D&D is always tricky business, because really Tolkien is incredably subtle by comparison. No fireball spells or lightning bolts from Gandalf, and he's the baddest Mo-Fo the good guys have got.

So if subtlety is the key, then I can see Aragorn knowing a little bit of elf-magic (his people being partially decended from elves I believe and him having lived with them and all). As was mentioned, the healing techniques, and talking to Bill the Pony both of these could be seen in a sublte magical way. After all, everyone else says that Kingfoil (athalas) is a weed, and the healing lady said only the King would know how to use it properly or some such, so there is more to it than simply slapping it on. But it's minor, and subtle, and when you get down to it, not that big a deal

 

[Zappo]

But it's minor, and subtle, and when you get down to it, not that big a deal

If that doesn't describe Ranger spells, I don't know what does.

 

[Dr Simon]

The tricky thing is that a lot of Tolkien magic, at least on behalf of the "good guys", isn't spell-casting but simply knowing the right words. It is implied many times that the elvish langauge(s) can have what we would consider a magical effect (speaking to animals, awakening trees etc.) but it is more a facet that the elvish languages have a property that is closer to the language of the creator(s). It's a sort of pre-Babel speech of you like.

The elves don't consider many of their own creations "magic" (lembas, elven cloaks, hithlain rope, boats that don't capsize) - to them they are merely well crafted, perhaps "perfectly crafted" might be one way of putting it.

Magic in the form of spells and weaving of arcane powers seems more to be in the realm of the bad guys - the Witch-King is considered a potent sorcerer (heck, his lair is known as the "City of Evil Magic" - Minas Morgul). I think that Tolkien probably means such knowledge to be dangerous, and those who pursue it too much risk falling (it is, after all, pursuit of power which is a big Tolkien no-no). Saruman and Celebrimbor, for example, fall too mcuh to the "magic and artifice" path. Sauron the Crafty certainly does and his Valar kin Aule skirts pretty close at times.

It's notable that Gandalf tends to shy away from any overt magical displays, and many of his fireball type displays probably come from Narya as much as his own ability. Throughout the siege of Minas Tirith his power is more in "firing men's courage" than in blasting Mumakil with fireballs!

 

[cmanos]

A while back there was a discussion on wether Aragorn ever cast spells in the LoTR books. One poster had a detailed post citing incidences wherin Aragorn indeed did cast spells.

not sure exactly what spells people are talking about Aragorn casting. He did use an herb to heal Frodo of someof his injury from Weathertop, but I wouldn't call that him casting a spell. More like he had such a good knowledge of the wild, he kew the right magical herbs to use to heal.

 

[Desdichado]

Should the thread be resurrected, count me in as a vehement opponent of the view that he did.

Seconded.

 

[Nikosandros]

Comparing LOTR to D&D is always tricky business, because really Tolkien is incredably subtle by comparison. No fireball spells or lightning bolts from Gandalf, and he's the baddest Mo-Fo the good guys have got.

I don't know about that... in the Hobbit, Gandalf throws something like a Ligthtning bolt at the orcs.

Also, there was some heavvy blasting going on (even if "off-screen") at Weathertop between Gandalf and the Nazghuls.

 

[billd91]

I don't know about that... in the Hobbit, Gandalf throws something like a Ligthtning bolt at the orcs.

Also, there was some heavvy blasting going on (even if "off-screen") at Weathertop between Gandalf and the Nazghuls.

And he does something to blast at wolves when they are attacked in Hollin. But that encounter, if I'm remembering it properly, illustrates that some kinds of magic, at least, is absolutely unsubtle. One major reason Gandalf uses so little of it is that it pretty much gives away his location when he does so on any flashy level.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Could it have been Rangers...make em more like Tolkiens books
or Rangers w/out spells

I don't think so, but thanks for the link. The post I am searching for had about 2 pages of quotes from LoTR that could very well be interpreted as spellcasting. They could also be interpreted another way, as well, of course. I personally like my rangers to cast spells, and I remember that the mysterious poster had gone to quite a lot of trouble to show aragorn as a spellcaster. I guess I should have saved it then. :-(