Arcane Channeling + Shocking Grasp

[FatherTome]

If you disagree with posters that agreed to not agree with you, it would be nice to address their arguments. So far you didn't post anything new for the case of "Duskblade should get +3 to hit for the normal melee attack".

So does this part answer the good old question whether a spell that is channeled through a normal attack that scores a critical is a critical as well? IIRC not.

Perhaps I'm not understanding the confusion here.

When you cast Shocking Grasp, if the opponent is wearing metal armor you get a +3 on your attack roll to hit them. I'll even quote from the SRD: "When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or made out of metal, carrying a lot of metal, or the like)."

Posting something new? Where is there room for argument? You gain a +3 when you're casting the spell normally, you still get a +3 when delivering it via unarmed strike, and you STILL get the +3 via a Duskblade's Arcane Strike because none of these abilities supersede this section of the spell.

If the argument is, "well, the spell says melee touch attack", I don't believe there is anything I can say to address their arguments because they are choosing to ignore the RAW which already provides for touch spells to be delivered via unarmed strikes against the target's normal AC rather than their touch AC - the spells are unchanged. Again: If you accept that a shocking grasp delievered via unarmed strike gets the +3 against an opponent wearing metal armor - which is the position the RAW takes - then the argument against is meritless.

In short, This Is The Way It Works In The RAW. You can invoke Rule Zero and run it differently - and you have every right to, but arguing against something clearly stated in the RAW just seems a little... odd.


As for weaponlike spells delivered through a melee weapon and criticals, give me a minute here....

"...any touch spell you know and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack." (PHB II, 20)

Simple way:

When you are delivering a touch spell as a melee touch attack, it threatens on a roll of 20 and has a critical multiplier of x2 (note that only damage is multiplied - this includes ability damage, but not ability penalties). If you take the Improved Critical feat, the threat range increases to 19-20. When you are delivering a touch spell as an unarmed strike, the same rule applies - if you have improved critical (unarmed strike), your threat range increases to 19-20 and your unarmed strike damage AND your weaponlike spell damage are both doubled.

When you are delivering a touch spell through your weapon, you use your weapon's threat range to determine whether the spell threatens a critical.

Complicated way:

Weaponlike spells threaten only on a roll of 20 unless you take improved critical: touch spell. For a weaponlike spell channeled through an arcane strike to threaten a critical hit, the original roll must be a natural 20 (or 19-20 with Imp. Critical) regardless of what the original weapon's threat range is. If wielding a longsword, a duskblade can threaten and confirm a critical with a longsword on a 19 and not crit with his weaponlike spell - or vice versa, if using a greataxe while only having improved critical: touch.

Really Simple Way: Weaponlike spells channeled through an Arcane Strike cannot critical themselves, although the weapon strike may threaten as normal.

Only the Simple Way, above, is supported through the RAW.

 

[Fifth Element]

This then supports my interpretation. You use the normal rules for melee touch spells. You have a skill or supernatural ability to channel through the weapon. The charge is not transferred to the weapon, you just have the ability to channel through. With shocking grasp, electricity using an electrical conduit makes sense to channel this spell whether you are a duskblade or not. If you don't touch them the first round, let's us say from to high an AC, then you could revert to using the touch attack and discharge it. If the opponent has metal armor, then you would get the +3 to attack.

Reread the post you are responding to. I was not discussing arcane channeling but the Smiting Spell metamagic feat.

 

[Torin Ironfist]

fifth, we are talking about the subject of the thread, not your hijack post (no offense intended).

Fathertome I do not see anywhere in the PHB where it explicitly states that a touch spell can be delivered via an unarmed strike and that the spell otherwise functions as normal... i would very much like to find something to that effect, so if you would please give me a page number to reference i would be very appreciative thanks a bunch.

(eat it rokes)

*edit*

i think i found what you are referring to, but hit me with a page number just in case.

The room for argument comes in (in others minds, not my own) when the PHB says something like 'when resolving damage, you do both your normal damage and spell damage" whereas arcane channeling says something to the effect of "when you connect with your attack, resolve your weapon damage, then your spell damage" , suggesting that possibly the devs meant to say the spell is dormant in your weapon, and wouldnt have any function, unlike when its on your hand.

personally i believed that unless stated otherwise, the spell would function in all ways like it would on your hand, but maybe im wrong... I feel that if it is not to function like it does on your hand, and is dormant so to speak on your weapon, that you shouldnt be able to use your weapon as an extension of your hand and make a touch attack with your weapon to discharge the spell, but that you ~must~ swing and do damage to activate the spell, making the whole concept a little silly imo.

 

[Darklone]

FatherTome: Much better post, now I understood what you meant.

Thanks for the link about the Shocking Grasp text, I wasn't aware that the AD&D text (IIRC) part about +3 to attack rolls wasn't explicitely changed to touch attacks.

Looks like RAW agree with you. Still it doesn't sit right with me that a bonus to touch attacks should help normal melee attack rolls. Feels like some weird wilder combo where the CHA bonus to touch AC could be transferred to normal AC.