Arcane Disciple and Warmage

[Votan]

OK, just looked Arcane Disciple up in the Complete Divine, and sure enough the whole "shouts for rule 0" business is a massive overreaction. Once a day a warmage/beguiler/dreadneck can cast some spell he couldn't have before, including those that are outside of his standard repetoire. So, the feat provides the benefit of a modest boost in flexibility.

And guess what? That's the exact same benefit that clerics have been reaping from domain spell lists since day one of 3e, dipping into arcane-exclusive spells. And it didn't even cost a feat. Non biggus dealus.

Agreed. It is a good feat for a Warmage but it has massive limits that make it painful to use and thus hard to be abused.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Agreed. It is a good feat for a Warmage but it has massive limits that make it painful to use and thus hard to be abused.

First, taking a level in cleric and Domain spontenaity is a great way to get around the 1/day problem.

One thing I think the last couple of posters are missing is the benefits of having a spell on your class list. Sure, you can only cast it one per day, but drag out a wand and you can cast it till your face turns blue. Plus qualifying for prestige calsses, is another option with a few of the spells.

I think it might possibly be balanced, though on the hig side. Personally I do not like the arcane being able to reach into the divine realms so easily. Most domains choose low-powered arcane spells for balance, but they choose high-powered divine spells becasue they originally thought that only clerics would have them, and plus, they get them anyway on their core list.

Let me take one domain for example, Good. Teh example will be wizard, the class withthe largest spell selection. For sorcerors to some degree and especially warmages, these will be even better.

1. Protection from Evil: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.

No big deal.

2. Aid: +1 on attack rolls, +1 on saves against fear, 1d8 temporary hp +1/level (max +10).

Any kind of hit points for wizards/arcane caster are good, but this one is not a problem, really.

3. Magic Circle against Evil: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.

Again, wizards can do this one.

4. Holy Smite: Damages and blinds evil creatures.

Nice area of effect that can ignore your own party. But not overpowered.

5. Dispel Evil: +4 bonus against attacks by evil creatures.

Getting a lot better. +4 AC and a banishment/Dispel Magic effect Great spell for a sorceror who needs versatility.

6. Blade Barrier: Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.

The best wall spell other than wall of force even if it doesn't say wall. Not hard to get the DC high enough to make this auto-damage, especially against mooks.

7. Holy Word F: Kills, paralyzes, slows, or deafens nongood subjects.

But this is the clincher. Sure you need 17 wisdom, or a moderately expensive will booster(at this level 16,000 for a wisdom +4 is chump change) Add in a bit of CL boosting and you have the clerical tactical nuke.

8. Holy Aura: +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against evil spells.

Again, see above. All you need is a ase wisdom 14 to use with the peript.

9. Summon Monster IX*: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.

Not worth it for even a cleric.


But all that said, I might allow it and would for most domains. But a few should not be allowed.

 

[Votan]

First, taking a level in cleric and Domain spontenaity is a great way to get around the 1/day problem.

This works but it is not a "free" or even low cost way to handle the problem. Many great options open up if you are prepared to lose caster levels in order to pay for them.