Archer Bush

[Aspect of BOZ]

According to the Palace of the Silver Princess version, creatures struck by the thorn volley take a -2 on to-hit rolls. This feature seems to have been dropped in later incarnations, but I like it. Fort save or be sickened, lasts 10 minutes or so? A neutralize poison spell would take care of it, of course.

The Vaults of Pandius version of the archer bush does retain a version of the sickening aspect of the plant, even if the ToH version does not. We can certainly make use of that ability even if it was not used past B3.

Let's discuss this as well...


Do we want to start them off at 2-HD? would bumping them to 3-HD be necessary? Demiurge suggested this mostly to give it feats, but I want to keep them non-intelligent.


We wanted to make the plant totally blind (as I think anything without a face should be) and possibly deaf as well. what other creatures can we emulate for this effect?


Do we want to go with 3 thorn sprays per day, regenerating every 10 (or 1d6+4?) rounds? I like that idea.


How much of a bonus do we want to give it for Hide in forests? +4? It already has +4 for its size.


It's very slow, so I don't know how effective it would be at bull-rushing? I think it should deal damage with thorns on anything grappling it. I'm going to give it a bite attack, but no Reach like I said before.

 

[Shade]

Let's discuss this as well...

I agree with Demiurge's suggestions...sickened condition for X duration or until condition is removed. I'd say anything that cures poison on removes the sickened condition should work, and creatures immune to poison should thus be immune to its effects.

Do we want to start them off at 2-HD? would bumping them to 3-HD be necessary? Demiurge suggested this mostly to give it feats, but I want to keep them non-intelligent.

Let's start 'em with 2.

We wanted to make the plant totally blind (as I think anything without a face should be) and possibly deaf as well. what other creatures can we emulate for this effect?

Suprisingly, most of the plant monsters rely on low-light vision. Some even have hearing. Here are a few exceptions:

Blindsight (Ex): Assassin vines have no visual organs but can ascertain all foes within 30 feet using sound, scent, and vibration.

Woodsense (Ex): A greenvise can automatically sense the location of anything within 60 feet that is in contact with vegetation, even objects or creatures that are not in contact with the same vegetation as it is.

Woodsense (Ex): An orcwort or wortling can automatically sense the location of anything within 60 feet that is in contact with vegetation, even objects or creatures that are not in contact with the same vegetation as itself.

Ironthorns have blindsense 60 ft. in Sandstorm.

Do we want to go with 3 thorn sprays per day, regenerating every 10 (or 1d6+4?) rounds? I like that idea.

Here's a slightly similiar ability for comparison/inspiration:

Thorn Volley (Ex): Battlebriars grow and shed their thorns at an incredible rate, and by rearing up on their hind legs and snapping their bodies forward, they can launch a deadly volley. As a standard action, a battlebriar can launch a volley of thorns, centering the volley anywhere within 60 feet. The thorns deal 8d6 points of piercing damage to all creautres within a 10-foot radius (Reflex DC 33 half). The save DC is Strength-based.

How much of a bonus do we want to give it for Hide in forests? +4? It already has +4 for its size.

Some of the skill bonuses of plant creatures:

Shamblers have a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, and Move Silently checks. They have a +12 racial bonus on Hide checks when in a swampy or forested area.

*In wooded areas, an ironmaw has a +15 racial bonus on Hide checks.

*Vine horrors have a +15 racial bonus on Hide checks in swamps or other areas with noticeable concentrations of algae.

*Night twists gain a +16 racial bonus on Hide checks in swamps or marshes where other trees and foliage thrive.

*In wooded areas, a wood woad gains an additional +4 bonus on Hide checks.

*A needlefolk's natural coloration and needles give it excellent camouflage in the forest. While there, it has a +16 racial bonus on Hide checks when stationary. This bonus drops to +8 if it moves at up to half-speed.


Alernatively...

Camouflage (Ex): Since an assassin vine looks like a normal plant when at rest, it takes a DC 20 Spot check to notice it before it attacks.

It's very slow, so I don't know how effective it would be at bull-rushing? I think it should deal damage with thorns on anything grappling it. I'm going to give it a bite attack, but no Reach like I said before.

Other thorn attacks:

Thorns (Ex): The body of a saguaro sentinel is covered with long, cruel thorns. These thorns tear at any creature that touches it, dealing 1d6 points of piercing damage. Creatures striking a saguaro sentinel with natural attacks or unarmed strikes are subject to this damage, but creatures striking with melee weapons are not. A creature that is pushed into or falls onto a plant also takes damage from its thorns.

Thorns (Ex): A porcupine cactus's thorns tear at any creature that touches it, dealing 1d4 points of piercing damage. Creatures that strike a porcupine cactus with natural attacks or unarmed strikes, or that try to grapple the cactus (presumably to pull it out of the ground), are subject to this damage, but creatures striking with melee weapons are not. A creature that is pushed into or falls onto a plant also takes damage from its thorns.

Thorns (Ex): Any creature that strikes a tumbling mound with a natural weapon takes 2d4 points of piercing damage from sharp thorns that cover the mound's body.

 

[demiurge1138]

Creatures striking the archer bush with natural weapons, unarmed strikes or grappling should get thorned.

I'm OK with letting archer bushes hear - the assassin vine's a pretty good model, in my opinion.

I don't like the camouflage ability as a whole, so I'd prefer giving them a Hide bonus of +4 to +8.

Only three sprays a day, each taking 10 rounds to recharge? Or three initially, and then 10 rounds recharging to grow another three (or even just another one)?

Demiurge out.

 

[BOZ]

should this effect be poison or disease related?

"Sickness Poison" (Ex): Any creature hit by an archer bush's thorn spray must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or be sickened for 10 minutes. Any effect that cures poison will remove the sickened condition, and any creature that has immunity to poison is immune to this effect. The save DC is Constitution-based.


Tremorsense (Ex): Archer bushes have no visual or auditory organs but can ascertain all foes in contact with the ground within (30, 60?) feet.


Shade, you bring up an interesting point. i was thinking of whether or not the thorn spray attack should be a regular ranged attack with an attack roll, or whether it should be an auto-hit with a saving throw. that's one to think about.


Ideas for ability scores:
Str 11, Dex 8 (if no ranged attack) or 15+ (with ranged attack), Con 14?; the similarly non-intelligent assassin vine has Wis 13 and Cha 9.

 

[demiurge1138]

Make it an attack roll. Having two saving throws associated with the same effect always bothers me. And I'm still unclear to the amount of thorn volleys the archer bush is going to have and how quickly it recharges them. Is it 3/day total, or three before needing to recharge?

Demiurge out.

 

[Shade]

Here's another potential source of inspiration from an old critter from WotC's site:

Quills (Ex): Melee combat with a quillflinger is dangerous. Unless opponents are using weapons with at least 10-foot reach, the quillflinger strikes each melee opponent with 1d4 quills. If the opponent succeeds at a Reflex save (DC 16), the quills that strike do not break off in his or her flesh. A quill that lodges in the skin imposes a -1 circumstance penalty to attacks, saves, and checks. Removing a quill inflicts 1d6 points of additional damage to the victim.

Fling Quills (Ex): A quillflinger can send forth a volley of 3 quills as a standard action. This attack has a range of 120 feet with no range increment. These quills are treated as thrown weapons. Sometimes a quillflinger uses this attack while hunkered down (see below). In such cases, the quillflinger makes a Listen check (opposed by the foe's Move Silently check) to garner a general bearing on where its opponent stands, and thus does not gain its Dexterity bonus to the ranged attack. If the quillflinger cannot hear an opponent, it does not fire any quills.

Quill Flurry (Ex): If a quillflinger becomes cornered or severely outnumbered, it turns its back on its opponent(s) and fire a hail of quills, which fills a cone directly behind the quillflinger. Anyone caught in the flurry is immediately struck by 2d4 quills, dealing 1d6 damage each. A successful Reflex save (DC 13) halves the damage. The quillflinger can use this attack only once per day, as it takes time for the quills to grow back.

Creatures striking the archer bush with natural weapons, unarmed strikes or grappling should get thorned.

Sounds good.

I'm OK with letting archer bushes hear - the assassin vine's a pretty good model, in my opinion.

Agreed.

I don't like the camouflage ability as a whole, so I'd prefer giving them a Hide bonus of +4 to +8.

Agreed with ditching camo, but I'd up the Hide to +15 or +16 like most of the other plant critters listed earlier.

Only three sprays a day, each taking 10 rounds to recharge? Or three initially, and then 10 rounds recharging to grow another three (or even just another one)?

Since the thing relies so heavily on its thorns, I'd like to see it replenish fairly quickly. I'd go with "enough thorns to fire 3 volleys", which replenish at the rate of one every 1d4 rounds.

should this effect be poison or disease related?

I'd follow the lead of trogolodyte stench, which also sickens, and go with poison-related.

Stench (Ex): When a troglodyte is angry or frightened, it secretes an oily, musk-like chemical that nearly every form of animal life finds offensive. All living creatures (except troglodytes) within 30 feet of a troglodyte must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or be sickened for 10 rounds. The save DC is Constitution-based. Creatures that successfully save cannot be affected by the same troglodyte’s stench for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from the sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.

Tremorsense (Ex): Archer bushes have no visual or auditory organs but can ascertain all foes in contact with the ground within (30, 60?) feet.

I like 60 feet.

Shade, you bring up an interesting point. i was thinking of whether or not the thorn spray attack should be a regular ranged attack with an attack roll, or whether it should be an auto-hit with a saving throw. that's one to think about.

Although I listed that ability, I'd rather see it as a ranged attack, or similar to the quillflinger's fling quills ability, above.

Ideas for ability scores:
Str 11, Dex 8 (if no ranged attack) or 15+ (with ranged attack), Con 14?; the similarly non-intelligent assassin vine has Wis 13 and Cha 9.

Those should work with the Dex 15+ option.

 

[BOZ]

i think a +16 Hide might be a bit high, since it starts with a +6 already (+4 size, +2 Dex).

 

[BOZ]

while you mull that over, updated this entry.

 

[Shade]

I'll settle for +8.

 

[BOZ]

suggestions on the rest of those items?