Ardent Class: Predictions?

[Infiniti2000]

It would be fairly easy to re-introduce the concept of mantles to 4e. A mantle would simply be a collection of powers of every level related to the theme of the mantle: one 1st-level at-will power, encounter powers of 1st, 3rd, 7th, 13th, 17th, 23rd and 27th level, daily powers of 1st, 5th, 9th, 15th, 19th, 25th and 29th level, and utility powers of 2nd, 6th, 10th, 16th and 22nd level. A 1st-level ardent selects two mantles, which give him both his at-will powers, and then selects his encounter and daily powers from the mantles he has picked. Humans might have the ability to select an at-will power (but only the at-will power) from a third mantle.

What's the benefit, though, to restricting the class to mantles? A huge restriction like this, without benefit, is extremely poor class design. My fear of it would be that it would be "balanced" by a completely unrelated benefit, making the balance itself extremely suspect and difficult to quantify.

 

[Turtlejay]

If it is a psionic class, I don't see why they can't use the Power Point mechanic that Psions have. Then, Mantles could be like Class abilities that alter at-wills in different ways. Perhaps your mantle allows you to augment with one more PP to change the damage type, or to exclude an ally from an area effect, or to make your attack brutal, or any number of things.

Not that I think this is how they will do it at all, but merely posting this to show that there are an unlimited number of ways they could introduce mantles, and I doubt we are going to guess how they do.

Jay

 

[eamon]

My prediction is that PHB3 will be development for the WOTC folks to show that they are willing to break some of the design constraints they had given themselves for PHB1 and PHB2.

I actually kind of hope that eventually they'll rediscover power reuse ala wizard/sorcerer and even wizard/druid or druid/cleric in 3e. I suppose the skill powers are a step in the right direction here; a bit more thereof could provide a much richer and more diverse pool of powers that are also better worked out. Right now, many powers feel like pretty minor variations on each other - I'd rather more meaningful distinctions even if that means fewer powers that are shared between classes. There's just too many powers that follow the basic do X attack(s)-deal standard damage-apply standard effect (or minor variant). Variety is the spice of D&D, and all .

 

[DreamChaser]

If it is a psionic class, I don't see why they can't use the Power Point mechanic that Psions have. Then, Mantles could be like Class abilities that alter at-wills in different ways. Perhaps your mantle allows you to augment with one more PP to change the damage type, or to exclude an ally from an area effect, or to make your attack brutal, or any number of things.

Not that I think this is how they will do it at all, but merely posting this to show that there are an unlimited number of ways they could introduce mantles, and I doubt we are going to guess how they do.

Jay

It's already been revealed (though I can't find where now...the psion article?) that all the psionic classes save the monk use the PP mechanic and augmentation. With this in mind, I predict that...

-- The class as a whole will feel very different from the 3.5 ardent because in the case of the 3.5 ardent what made them different was the limited power selection. Other than that, they were psions with better armor and weapons. Since ardent and divine mind were originally one class according to the design notes for Complete Psionic, i think we'll see more of those two classes' concepts melded together.

-- Daily powers will be Mantles similar to how the barbarian has rages so that the effect lasts through the encounter. One of their class features would be "Don Mantle" that gives them (or their allies) bonuses to certain actions when a mantle power is used.

or

-- Mantles will function like vestiges where there are a couple defaults then others become options as a result of daily powers.

-- Their healing abilities will be near (but perhaps greater than) the artificer but less than the other leaders as a result of a unique mechanic...perhaps tying their PP into the mix...at will healing = temp HP; augment 1 = healing surge; augment 2 = healing surge with bonus (perhaps not this exactly because I don't like that this puts their healing powers in the same silo as their combat powers but something like this).

-- Rod will be an implement

Asssuming there will be 4 psionic classes, we will see the 3e disciplines split (generally) as follows:
** psion = telepathy, psychokinesis (some psychoportation)
** ardent = clairsentience, metacreativity (some telepathy)
** psychic warrior = psychometabolic, psychoportation (some metacreativity)

-- So, the ardent will have powers the create defenses for the party and grant insight into the actions of the enemies. Think summoning artificer meets prescient bard.

DC

 

[DreamChaser]

I actually kind of hope that eventually they'll rediscover power reuse ala wizard/sorcerer and even wizard/druid or druid/cleric in 3e. I suppose the skill powers are a step in the right direction here; a bit more thereof could provide a much richer and more diverse pool of powers that are also better worked out. Right now, many powers feel like pretty minor variations on each other - I'd rather more meaningful distinctions even if that means fewer powers that are shared between classes. There's just too many powers that follow the basic do X attack(s)-deal standard damage-apply standard effect (or minor variant). Variety is the spice of D&D, and all .

Variation is hard to balance...that said, Divine has many powers that don't deal damage (for the cleric) but instead do only status effects or penalties, which I think is a move in the direction you're referring to.

Also--given that at the end of the day a combat power is designed to bring combat to an end and the most expendient way to do that is by dealing damage to the enemy--this formula (attack = base damage plus possible effect) means that everyone, from a dedicated healer to a tank, can feel useful...

The longer 3e went on, the harder it became to balance all the stuff that was coming out, especially for the wizard / sorcerer. I caught the Orb spells and banned them right away but others sneak up on you and you realize too late that the caster has just rendered every other character completely obsolete. While there are a few powers / items that edge toward brokeness, in the grand scheme of things, the 4e formula encourages group orientation and prevents too much in the way of role theft.

I for one like that fact.

DC

 

[lukelightning]

The Ardent is likely to focus on a mechanic which differs markedly from the "healing Word" twice an encounter mechanic that will still allow it to perform its duties as a leader.

One possibility is to invest temporary hit points. Another is to grant regeneration. Another possibility is to provide DR as an interrupt reaction.

Maybe empathic damage transfer; Minor action to transfer the damage to the ardent, then some class feature allows the ardent to heal himself. Or, even better, transfer the damage to an enemy.

maybe it's a pirate-based class? Arrrrrdent?

It's a pirate dentist.

Or maybe a dutch earth-based tree person (aard-ent)

 

[Infiniti2000]

It's a pirate dentist.

He's sure got a lot of work cut out for him, then!

 

[fireinthedust]

I'm wondering what the class of the minotaur on the cover is. I was thinking Death Knight, like in WoW: defender specializing in, like, shadow or necrotic or something.

Ardent doesn't make sense for that, simply because there are runes on the weapon and the minotaur has glowy eyes. I'd expect them to be more obviously Ardent-ish, but I could be wrong

 

[lukelightning]

I'm wondering what the class of the minotaur on the cover is. I was thinking Death Knight, like in WoW: defender specializing in, like, shadow or necrotic or something.

I'm guessing hexblade.

 

[FireLance]

It may be interesting, but people already complain enough about how the warlock's at-will powers are constrained by their eldritch pact, I can only imagine what it would be like if all of a class's powers were selected in a similar manner.

What's the benefit, though, to restricting the class to mantles? A huge restriction like this, without benefit, is extremely poor class design. My fear of it would be that it would be "balanced" by a completely unrelated benefit, making the balance itself extremely suspect and difficult to quantify.

The benefit would mostly flavor-related. Since the mantles would have powers that are thematically linked, they (and the ardents who use them) will be distinctively different from each other. I can see why some players might chafe at the restrictions, but as long as the powers are approximately equal to each other, I doubt there will be balance issues.