Ardent Class: Predictions?

[Mengu]

It's the 4th unimpressive class out of PHB3. How are these guys supposed to work as equals in a party with martial characters who are about to get their second power book in a few months, and have 2 AV's worth of goodies? Fortunately it's a melee weapon based class, so at least there is plenty of support for that (though since the class lacks strength, that too can be a challenge).

There had better be some nice surprises for these classes in PHB3 that have not yet been previewed.

</sky_is_falling>

 

[Destil]

So... you're upset that they're resisting power creep? If the new classes can hold their own against PHB1/PHB2 classes with no powersource book and not be all that overpowered, I'll be happy.

The first paragon class looks like a pretty potent lockdown build, too...

 

[Jhaelen]

It's the 4th unimpressive class out of PHB3.

Wow. To each his own, I guess. The 4e Psion and Monk are easily among my favorite classes. What I've heard from the Seeker is at least intriguing and the Ardent ... I don't really anything of, yet.

 

[Infiniti2000]

So... you're upset that they're resisting power creep?

This. I agree with Destil.

I guess sometimes you can't win for losing.

 

[Mengu]

So... you're upset that they're resisting power creep? If the new classes can hold their own against PHB1/PHB2 classes with no powersource book and not be all that overpowered, I'll be happy.

I'm not looking for power creep, just fairness. PHB has some of the most powerful options for the classes presented therein, Twin Strike, Disruptive Strike, Righteous Brand, Consecrated Ground, Villain's Menace, Rain of Steel, Blinding Barrage, and the list goes on. Class features such as Healer's Lore, Combat Challenge, Tactical Presence, Fighter/Rogue weapon talent also remain among the best class features. Paragon paths such as Pit Fighter, Daggermaster, Bloodmage, Radiant Servant, Warpriest are all up there too.

It is not unreasonable to look for a few signature features or powers on par with some of these.

The first paragon class looks like a pretty potent lockdown build, too...

Given that aside from the PP itself, I see no Ardent powers that immobilize, unless you can synergize with the party, I don't know how much lock down it will provide (again we'll have to wait and see the full class I guess). Can be decent with a controller and/or defender who works with you though.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think you also have to actually try playing a class before you can judge it very well.

I have a player running a psion in my game now. The character is definitely performing at level 8 on a par with the other PCs, which except for the Sorcerer are all PHB1 classes (a dwarf greatweapon fighter, a BS rogue, a STR cleric, a starlock, and a dragon sorcerer). Sure doesn't seem to be suffering any serious power level lack due to limited options. Sure it would be nice if the class had more options, but the player chose to use a preview class that isn't even more than half there. Its his choice. I'm guessing when PHB3 comes out he gets some new fun options. As it stands the character is quite playable and actually seems if anything at least on a par with the rest of the party.

From looking at the Seeker preview I'm just guessing that class is quite playable as well, though its hard to say for 100% certain if it would be entirely on a par with the others in actual use. I suspect it will work OK and when it is released it should be fine.

 

[Mengu]

Wow. To each his own, I guess. The 4e Psion and Monk are easily among my favorite classes.

I think you also have to actually try playing a class before you can judge it very well.

I swallow my words. Just tried a first level monk, it felt pretty awesome. Didn't think I could get excited about killing minions but monks are the best at-will minion killers out of the gate with Five Storms and Centered Flurry. And one shotted a fresh guy without a crit, using Open the Gate of Battle. It does about as much damage as Avalanche Strike, without the drawback.

After that experience, I'll reserve further judgement on the Ardent until I try one.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Sounds pretty cool Mengu. Now you have me wanting to get someone in my game to try it

 

[chitzk0i]

I'm not looking for power creep, just fairness. PHB has some of the most powerful options for the classes presented therein, Twin Strike, Disruptive Strike, Righteous Brand, Consecrated Ground, Villain's Menace, Rain of Steel, Blinding Barrage, and the list goes on. Class features such as Healer's Lore, Combat Challenge, Tactical Presence, Fighter/Rogue weapon talent also remain among the best class features. Paragon paths such as Pit Fighter, Daggermaster, Bloodmage, Radiant Servant, Warpriest are all up there too.

It is not unreasonable to look for a few signature features or powers on par with some of these.

The way I see it, the PHB1 was very hit or miss. Back when those powers were written, the devs had a mediocre grasp on what abilities are actually useful. Since then, they've learned a lot and newer content has been a lot more moderate in power level. Sure, there are still some powers that make you say "Who would ever take this?", but there's also a lot less that are ridiculously broken. Righteous Brand is great, but every other strength-based cleric power in the PHB1 is terrible. As for Pit Fighter, how many other defender PPs just hand you striker-level damage?

 

[Destil]

Given that aside from the PP itself, I see no Ardent powers that immobilize, unless you can synergize with the party, I don't know how much lock down it will provide (again we'll have to wait and see the full class I guess). Can be decent with a controller and/or defender who works with you though.

It comes with an encounter that can immobilize and the action point ability is another immobilize. It's not a perfect combo, but it certifiably has some potential (which is a lot more interesting than something like an orb-wizard with an inescapable immobilize power).

For what it's worth I think the Ardent's epic level at wills are rather underpowered (decent augments, but the at will effects just don't seem to be on par with epic at-wills). The psion had a similar issue, but really only with 1 of the 4 at wills, for the Ardent it's more like 3...