D&D 5E Are Aura's burdensome?

Dit464

First Post
So I've recently been wanting to play a Paladin when I told my GM this he sighed and asked me to be a different class. When I asked why he said that the paladins' auras make DM'ing remarkably more difficult and that my party should fail saves every once in a while. (not get the +3 to all saves when within 10 feet of me)2 Questions with this one. Are Paladins really that burdening on a campaign, and what could be a decent substitution for the Paladins aura?
 

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Illithidbix

Explorer
The Paladin Auras do rock but I think your DM is over reacting.

If you look at the Saving throw DCs of monsters as they raise their CR, then there is still a high chance of failure with saving throws characters are not proficient/high ability score in.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
Yeah, not to mention that there will be plenty of times your companions will be outside the 10' radius. It doesn't increase to 30' until 18th level, by which time the DCs are high enough even a +5 won't guarantee success with an otherwise weak save bonus.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Playing an Oath of the Ancients paladin, currently 7th. Most of the time I have at most one other PC close enough to take advantage of it. When we're outdoors I often have none, since I'm rushing up to engage and my allies are usually more ranged or support. Indoors it can be higher. Grouping us up also hurts for area of effect attacks. If the foe throws a fireball and hits five instead of three, odds are he'll have the same number of failed saves anyhow because more need to be made, plus half damage for all the others.

You posted, so I assume you're going to try to convince your DM to let you play. If so, ask if this is from play experience.
 

pukunui

Legend
I've been playing a paladin for a while now. Got her all the way up to level 20. She has a 20 Charisma, but the +5 doesn't always save her comrades. They can still roll low enough to fail. I think my DM has found the aura that makes everyone immune to fear a little more annoying, but even then, he doesn't seem to mind too much. I'd say your DM is overreacting.
 


Celtavian

Dragon Lord
Paladins are one of the most powerful classes in the game and the saving throw aura is one of the abilities that makes them so.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
So I've recently been wanting to play a Paladin when I told my GM this he sighed and asked me to be a different class. When I asked why he said that the paladins' auras make DM'ing remarkably more difficult and that my party should fail saves every once in a while. (not get the +3 to all saves when within 10 feet of me)2 Questions with this one. Are Paladins really that burdening on a campaign, and what could be a decent substitution for the Paladins aura?

First.

It's not the DM's job to remember or remind players when they benefit from an aura (or any other spell for that matter). If they forget it, tough luck, play it where it lies and hope they remember next time. DMs who try to becomes the "collective memory" of the group are bound to become frustrated.

Second.

If your DM primarily runs dungeon crawls where the party is operating in a tight formation, then yes the Paladin's aura is pretty amazing. Then again, so are 10' wide pit traps and fireballs in enclosed spaces used against said party.

The lesson for your DM is two-fold: "Play hard. And adapt."
 

mellored

Adventurer
You take more damage from a Fireball standing by a paladin then if you where standing 40' away.

Besids, protecting the party us pretty much the paladins thing. That's like complaining the wizard keeps using AOES or the fighter keeps doing damage.
 

S

Sunseeker

Guest
The catch to Paladin aura's is that you need to be w/in 10 feet (30 at high levels). Now, a party operating like an organized fighting unit can take some pretty huge advantage of that, but at the same time it puts the entire party in AOE range from breath weapons, fireballs, cloudkills, sleep, etc... You may have more better saves against some of them, but that's a far cry from not having to bother with the save at all because you're 30 feet away. Or avoiding traps, or avoiding difficult terrain.

The trick is really just making the party split up.
 

Paraxis

Explorer
I do my gaming on roll20 with grid maps for all encounters, the 10' aura is not that big of a deal. With the way combat spreads out and people place themselves to not be grouped up for AoE effects it is usually just one other person benefiting from it. Do remember the nice benefit that some forget, it is a bonus to all saves including death saves.
 


The Myopic Sniper

Adventurer
I can see where the DM is coming from if you are doing Theater of the Mind combats. It really is the type of thing that is designed to work with a grid and battlemaps. I just tend to give players the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are within the aura unless they are off doing their own thing (the Barbarian is halfway up the mountain dropping boulders or the thief is in the other room stealing the relic while the party keeps the guards occupied in the courtyard). My ruling would be a nerf to the expanded aura feature, but it isn't that big of deal if your campaign never gets to that level.
 


Saeviomagy

Adventurer
If all the party are within 10' of the paladin to get the bonus, then they will all get hit by every AOE AND the squishy classes are within 20 feet of the front combat lines (unless you've got some weird ranged paladin). I think the net result of that will be negative.

If you're running theatre of the mind, then it should be pretty trivial to decide whether someone is close to the paladin or not - if you're in melee, you're probably within the aura. Otherwise you're not unless you specifically said you wanted to be.

In short - the DM is being a whiner.
 

n0nym

Explorer
It is indeed a problem when players are not completely dumb, as it wrecks bounded accuracy.

In my group there is a paladin, a rogue, a ranger and a barbarian. As you've probably noticed, they're almost all melee (some can fight at range but they prefer melee). Most of them have a way to negate all damage (or close) on Dexterity saves (Shield master, Evasion or Resistance). Against mental saves, it's almost always better for them to stay close to the paladin.

Auras are one of those things that make building challenging encounters a nightmare (along with GWM, SS, Polearm master, etc...). In our next game, I'll probably just remove them by making them "paladin only" or give the paladin's allies a reduced bonus (+1 to all saves for Aura of Protection, Advantage vs Fear / Charm for Aura of Courage and Devotion, etc...).

They also make magic items redundant. You just can't give a Cloak or Ring of Resistance to your players if there's a paladin in the group, because it makes things even worse. :/

I don't think it is being "a whiner" to prioritize story, intrigues or even detailling battlegrounds over encounter building. I paid 40 bucks to buy a Monster Manual, I don't want to spend hours modifying monsters to make them challenging, I have more interesting things to do, thank you.
 
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Unwise

Adventurer
I DM a 1 character game where the PC is a Paladin. It is extremely hard to balance encounters when any save effect is unlikely to land at all. I have played in a game with two paladins in it too, an ancients and a devotion one. They split up to cover the whole party in their auras. Given that we were fighting lots of underdark creatures like ithillid, it did make it very hard on the DM to make challenging encounters. Especially with the eventual immunity to fear and charm effects from the devotion guy and the half spell damage from the ancients guy.

<edit> That being said, DM is whining.
 
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Valdier

Explorer
There are plenty of encounters where the save doesn't count. Worst case scenario, *occasionally* the party has an easier fight, how is that terrible? Every fight should not be balanced perfectly to equally kick the parties ass. If a saving throw is the do or die to the balance of your entire encounter and the GM's fun, there is a more fundamental problem in the game.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
I think my DM has found the aura that makes everyone immune to fear a little more annoying, but even then, he doesn't seem to mind too much. I'd say your DM is overreacting.
Heh, a Paladin who tends to make team members ‘immune’ to fear, seems to be working as intended.



Anyway, for me, the aura itself as a mechanic is a central archetype. Everything from the heat of a volcano monster to the halo of divine providence refers to some kind of aura.

I get how auras take effect on some other persons actions, so might seem like a ‘burden’ to remember in addition to other actions. But it is important to express the concept of an aura somehow.
 

77IM

Explorer!!!
Supporter
If the aura is the DM's only complaint, he should offer to modify or replace it in some way, not just ban the whole class.
 

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