Are barbed bolas going to be a problem?

[Emirikol]

One of my players took barbed bolas. have any of you had any trouble or do you foresee me having any trouble with them?

Complete warrior, Barbed Bolas..stats here: http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/weapons.pl?all

jh

 

[frankthedm]

What boook are they in?

Why did you aprove them if you were unsure about them?

How do they operate?

 

[Nyeshet]

I'm guessing that they are normal bolas that deal piercing damage instead of bludgeoning damage? Something like: 1d4 (med) X2 (crit) 10 ft (range) 2 lb (wt) Piercing, and:

You can use this weapon to make a ranged trip attack against an opponent. You can’t be tripped during your own trip attempt when using a set of bolas.

If this is the case, I do not see the problem. He's just trading out bludgeoning for piercing type damage. Actually, with the stated range, he'll almost certainly have to take Far Shot to do much with it. That, in turn, requires Point Blank Shot. And this is not even taking into consideration that he will need Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Barbed Bola) to use them without a hefty penalty. So he'll have to take at least three feats to make adequet use of this weapon. Note that once thrown it is no longer useable the following round unless it has the Returning weapon property - and I'm not even sure that will work if it has successfully tripped a creature - as it trips by basically entangling the legs.

If the rope connecting the bolas (instead of the bolas themselves) is barbed, then perhaps the damage would be higher (1d6?), but otherwise I cannot see how this would be a major concern. Trading out bludgeoning for piercing is a minor quibble in nearly all instances (some DR works against one and not the other, and vice versa). Increasing the damage to 1d6 while also trading out the damage type is a bit iffy, but considering it only has a range of 10 ft, cannot be used for multiple attacks in a single round, and (unless it has the Return property) cannot even be available for any use the following rounds (until the PC goes and fetches it), I do not see how focusing on this type of weapon could be an issue - except, perhaps, if the damage is increased.

 

[Emirikol]

Bolas, Barbed 10 gp 1d3 1d4 x2 10 ft. 3 lb. Piercing Complete Warrior

Bolas, Barbed

The barbed bolas is similar to a normal bolas, except that its weighted balls are studded with hooked barbs. The barbed bolas functions identically to the bolas except that its amage is not subdual damage. In addition, on any failed affempt to break or wriggle free, the grappled character takes an additional 1d4 points of damage.

 

[pawsplay]

Nasty, but even a d4 hit die wizard can survive a few d4s of damage.

 

[AuraSeer]

The linked page's rule for bolas makes them a bit too strong for my taste. If you get hit and fail a Reflex save, you're Pinned-- which means totally out of action except for V-only spells. If you have a low Strength bonus and no ranks in Escape Artist, you're screwed until somebody comes to help.

As written, the bolas are a pretty nearly perfect wizard-suppression device. In that role they're even more effective than hold person, because wizards tend to have lower Reflex than Will saves, and the bola's save DC is probably higher to boot. Barbs just add injury to insult; that's like acid arrow and hold person at the same time.

I'd change the effect from "pinned" to "grappled." That will still hamper a caster significantly, but will at least give them a chance to act, and it lets opponents prepare once they know what's coming. (Since you can use light weapons in a grapple, if you had a dagger in hand you could use it to cut yourself free.) I might lower the escape DCs to 15, as well.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Don't forget that the bolas only require a touch attack to hit (that is armor, shield, and natural armor do not count for AC). Can be used to make ranged trip attacks, easy hits, lethal damage, more lethal damage on the escape, high Str or Escape Artist DC to escape, and pin unless Reflex DC same as attack roll.
Human Ftr. level 1 can get all three feats (Exotic Weapon Prof [barbed bolas], Far Shot, and Point Blank Shot) and be ready to find other ways to improve them (Weapon Focus, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Specialization, etc.). Prone and pinned in one attack is very strong and will work against even heavily armored opponents, though it may not hold them long; taking them out for even one round with a single ranged attack can often turn the tide of battle. Carry enough of these weapons and the entire enemy force could be tied-up on the ground very quickly.

Ciao
Dave

 

[Nyeshet]

I've read through the srd several times (and even looked at a couple different ones, just to be sure), but I have not seen anywhere the statement that bolas are touch attacks. The chart has a superscript '3' which, below, states that the damage is non-leathal. The actual description of the bola only states:

Bolas

You can use this weapon to make a ranged trip attack against an opponent. You can’t be tripped during your own trip attempt when using a set of bolas.

Therefore, I believe you may be incorrect in this. Granted, the SRD, under 'trip attack' states that the melee trip is a touch attack, but no where does it mention the ranged attack being a touch attack. Thus, I think it would be up to DM interpretation as to whether or not ranged attack would be normal or a ranged touch attack.

Now, if the barbed bolas state that it deals damage every round until the tripped opponent is freed, then I think it might be a bit much. On the other hand, even with Far Shot they are limited to only 15 ft without a penalty to attack - for a maximum range of 75 ft (50 ft w/o Far Shot). Without Precise Shot they will likely be opperating under a -4 penalty due to the cover the wizard receives from his allies and those foes between he and the bola thrower. (I would presume the wizard would not be so foolish as to be out in the open.) So a second level fighter could have all the pre-requisite feats (Exotic Weapon Prof (barbed bola), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Far Shot), but he is still taking a -2 per range increment beyond 15 ft. So a foe 30 ft away requires a -2 to the attack roll, while one 60 ft away requires a -6 to the attack roll.

All in all, the weapon is somewhat strong for even an exotic weapon. In some ways it seems to be the Spiked Chain of the Ranged / Throwing weapons. Note, however, that any foes should not be so foolish as to leave the caster unguarded / out in the open, so unless he is near an unguarded wizard this shouldn't even be much of a problem.

 

[pawsplay]

It is super nasty against spellcasters, but less so against some kinds of characters... rogues, anything bigger than Large, and so forth. Also, like any thrown weapon, enchanted versions can be an expensive proposition... returning is all but mandatory and you would need a new bola for each opponent.

 

[ElectricDragon]

In the link provided by the OP, bolas state:

A bolas is a set of three weighted balls connected by leather cords. To attack, you whirl the bolas in a circle over your head and then fling it at a target. The bolas connect with your opponent with a successful ranged touch attack. Disregard any armor, shield, or natural armor bonus of the target.

Why did I go there? Because the other weapon: Barbed Bolas referred to a bolas:

The barbed bolas is similar to a normal bolas, except that its weighted balls are studded with hooked barbs.

If the barbed bolas is like the bolas, except...; then rules are the same for both, except...

Now these must be 3.0 rules or some other variant, but those are the ones the OP is using. Never mind the fact that this is not stated in the SRD. SRD says you can make a trip attack with a bolas. Nothing about trip attacks is mentioned in either description.

Now, the two-ball bola can be used for trip attacks (also a ranged touch attack), but these are automatic, target gets a grapple check to avoid being grappled also.

Ciao
Dave