Are Commoners now immune to Detect Evil?

[pawsplay]

So was I reading correctly before that a move action allows the paladin to discern if any creature is evil, whether they have an aura or not? Thoughts?

I really think a 2 HD serial killer warrants at least some evil aura. I could always invent a "truly vile individual" template to cover such things, but it seems like detecting evil should intrinsically detect really evil beings, whether they are powerful or supernatural or not.

 

[ruemere]

So was I reading correctly before that a move action allows the paladin to discern if any creature is evil, whether they have an aura or not? Thoughts?

I really think a 2 HD serial killer warrants at least some evil aura. I could always invent a "truly vile individual" template to cover such things, but it seems like detecting evil should intrinsically detect really evil beings, whether they are powerful or supernatural or not.

IMHO, there are two interesting aspects to this:
- truly vile creatures would count as champions of evil, i.e. they could radiate Evil just like Paladins and Clerics do
- new version of Paladin ability can be used in either of two ways - as at will Detect Evil spell or as move action ability to determine whether subject of the abiliuty is Evil. In case of move action, you could interpret this to be more precise assessment of creature's alignment than that of the spell

You may also rule, that minor creatures, unless specifically and by their own free will tied to supernatural evil entity/symbol/ideology, are too weak in their convictions to be considered to be really Evil.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Aus_Snow]

spam reported.

 

[pawsplay]

So, the a 2HD bandit who kills noncombatants, including children; rapes and killis eats his enemies' body parts in front of their surviving comrades; murders the priests and lay clergy of the local Good temple and so forth, does not have an aura of evil in PF?

 

[billd91]

So, the a 2HD bandit who kills noncombatants, including children; rapes and killis eats his enemies' body parts in front of their surviving comrades; murders the priests and lay clergy of the local Good temple and so forth, does not have an aura of evil in PF?

That's right. His aura of evil, faint in 3.5, has been downgraded to undetectable in PF (at least until his reign of terror nets him enough XPs to reach 5 HD). But, as always, the aura of evil a creature has does not depend on how evil they are, but how powerful they inherently are and how close their connection is to evil sources of power (negative energy, divine connections, etc). That hasn't changed. What's really different is that now there's a difference between a 10 HD evil creature and a 1 HD evil creature.

 

[Minicol]

Maybe I was reading it wrong, but I see no change from 3.5

I always understood that in order to detect evil, you had to have either an aura on your target (cleric/antipaladin/blackguard/evil outsider), and that non magic users were free from it.

Did I get it wrong ?

 

[pawsplay]

What's really different is that now there's a difference between a 10 HD evil creature and a 1 HD evil creature.

That's right. A 1 HD evil creature is now... not evil. I certainly accept that detect evil measures connection to supernatural evil, I just wonder why a 10 HD evil guy has an aura while a 1 HD evil guy does not. This also, to a great extent, translates to, "This ability works for higher level paladin on their adventures, but is mostly useless for low level paladins."

If it did not work on mundane evil creatures, that would be a different matter. I could logically accept that. Palladium Fantasy takes exactly that approach to detecting evil. But if it works on a 10 HD or chieftain, it should work on a 1 HD orc warrior. They are both, as far as I can see, both evil in the same sense.

So the ability just fails against goblins and orcs. I have a hard time imagining how characters in-game would intepret this phenomenon.

 

[Alzrius]

Pawsplay, I think you're thinking about this in the wrong fashion.

It's not a question of "how evil" a character is - the detect spells aren't measuring the quality of the person's alignment; they're measuring their power in terms of how strong of an aura they're able to generate. It's similar to a lot of Eastern ideas about how, for example, martial artists can sense the "chi" of other powerful martial artists.

A 10 Hit Dice character has a great deal of personal power, and so their evil aura is strong enough that detect evil can pick it up, regardless of if they're "kicking puppies-style evil" or "eats babies for breakfast-style evil," whereas a 1 HD character won't have the power necessary to be a blip on the spell's radar, no matter what they do.

 

[pawsplay]

If it detects Evil, I don't think how much personal power you generate is that important, unless it's Evil personal power.

Apart from that, I see potential game play issues. Why do low-level paladins have to go hunting and pecking to discover evil and smite it, while higher level paladins easily detect high level evil foes? Given that their smite evil power depends on being able to reliably detect evil, it seems pretty harsh. Minimally, their detect evil ability should provide "detect things I can smite."

Maybe I am looking at things wrong, but I think either:
1. Even 1 HD evil creatures should generate a faint aura, because they're evil.
or
2. No creature should have an evil aura unless it's an undead, outsider, cleric, or other supernaturally connected character.

 

[Micco]

I agree Pawplay. I chose "2". Only "connected" evil creatures have an aura, except in rare circumstances that are related more to the amount of evil the creature has done rather than its level. It's is totally GM determined and there are no hard rules. It is what it is, and it is one of the things Pallys have to 'deal with' as part of their humbling and difficult road. Basically, in my campaign if you don't want moral ambiguity and dilemmas, don't sign up to play a Paladin.