Are Commoners now immune to Detect Evil?

[DaveMage]

I like the idea that only creatures with evil auras/subtype (not just an evil alignment) can be detected by detect evil.

That may be my first Pathfinder house rule. However, I think even a 1 HD creature with an evil aura should be detectable.

I also think, to use the example above, that depending on the actions of a creature, it could *gain* the evil subtype based on its actions.

 

[BryonD]

That may be my first Pathfinder house rule. However, I think even a 1 HD creature with an evil aura should be detectable.

1 HD evil clerics do have an aura in PF. So it may not be a house rule unless I'm reading you wrong.

In an evil party of 1st level fighter, wizard, rogue, and cleric, the cleric would ping, but his buddies would not.

 

[BryonD]

Maybe I am looking at things wrong, but I think either:
1. Even 1 HD evil creatures should generate a faint aura, because they're evil.
or
2. No creature should have an evil aura unless it's an undead, outsider, cleric, or other supernaturally connected character.

Well, you can look at it another way.

In the table on page 266 rename "none" as "faint".
Rename "faint" as "weak".
Leave Moderate, Strong and Overwhelming as presented.

Add the line: You can sense the presence of evil as long as the aura is weak or greater.

It doesn't change how anything works, but the flavor is shifted.

 

[DaveMage]

1 HD evil clerics do have an aura in PF. So it may not be a house rule unless I'm reading you wrong.

In an evil party of 1st level fighter, wizard, rogue, and cleric, the cleric would ping, but his buddies would not.

True, but an "aligned creature" (that's not an undead, outsider, cleric, or paladin), even with an evil aura, would not be detectable if it only has 1 HD.

I may simply house rule than *any* creature not listed above with an evil aura detects as an "aligned outsider".

 

[BryonD]

True, but an "aligned creature" (that's not an undead, outsider, cleric, or paladin), even with an evil aura, would not be detectable if it only has 1 HD.

I may simply house rule than *any* creature not listed above with an evil aura detects as an "aligned outsider".

Can you give me an example?

But either way, the footnote says that other characters may radiate and aura. It clearly mentions other classes. But it seems very much in the spirit of the rule that if there is a reason to have an aura, it counts.

 

[DaveMage]

Can you give me an example?

But either way, the footnote says that other characters may radiate and aura. It clearly mentions other classes. But it seems very much in the spirit of the rule that if there is a reason to have an aura, it counts.

Upon further review (as I was looking for an example), I discovered that there are very, very few creatures with the [evil] subtype that aren't outsiders or undead (or have less than 5 hit dice).

The only ones I found are the grues from Complete Arcane, which are
elementals. I expected to find at least *some* fey and magical beasts, but, well, there don't seem to be any....

 

[BryonD]

I'd agree it is a good idea that any future creatures with the [evil] subtype automatically include an Aura as either a cleric or an outsider if they don't meet some other criteria

 

[pawsplay]

Well, you can look at it another way.

In the table on page 266 rename "none" as "faint".
Rename "faint" as "weak".
Leave Moderate, Strong and Overwhelming as presented.

Add the line: You can sense the presence of evil as long as the aura is weak or greater.

It doesn't change how anything works, but the flavor is shifted.

Wow, that's a lot of work to produce the same problematic result. Again, I don't think a 9 HD bandit is, of a kind, more detectably evil than a 3 HD serial killer. In a world of moral realism, like D&D, I can see how being especially powerful might generate a more powerful aura, but I do not see how having a lower, kind of everday number of Hit Dice precludes having the same, somewhat evil aura as other beings that are not supernatural creatures.

Evil does not mean "not very nice." Having an evil alignment in D&D means you have done some bad things, or are inclined to do them if you get the chance. While simply being evil is not the same as having a subtype, being evil in a world where monks and paladins gain their powers through personal conviction is still rather significant.

Even if you make evil rather akin to Taint, a sort of material contamination of evil, doing evil deeds should generate an aura. If it just doesn't work that way, then the same logic keep it from working for higher level baddies. "Gosh, these murderous orc is simply too wimpy to contain true moral decay," just doesn't hold a lot of water.

 

[BryonD]

Well, what you see as a lot of work I see as no work at all. But that really isn't here nor there since I clearly got the wrong idea.

You had said even a 1HD evil guy should have an aura and my tweak gives that.

I just don't think that a pygmy hamster that is evil through and through, but otherwise a completely normal pygmy hamster, needs to be a beacon of evil. I like the concept of some potency of evil, call it the potential energy of the evil.

I'm not saying it is a right way to do it. It is way out there is subjective land.

The 1HD evil guy is evil in all the ways you describe. But the potency of that evil is weak enough that the 1st level spell simply can not detect it. Like an odor that a dog can detect but a person can not.

I don't see anything that says an orc doesn't have moral decay. I do see something that says that Detect Evil doesn't have the ability to smell it.

But house rule it. no big deal.

 

[SSquirrel]

Did Joe the Dark Farmer become the BBEG greatest frontline weapon?

Are you going to trust the Sword of a Thousand Truths to a newb?

Evil does not mean "not very nice." Having an evil alignment in D&D means you have done some bad things, or are inclined to do them if you get the chance. While simply being evil is not the same as having a subtype, being evil in a world where monks and paladins gain their powers through personal conviction is still rather significant.

So if someone is evil, but has never really acted on it....they're not a nice person, but never killed anyone in cold blood or the various things Evil usually does, if they were sitting in the bar pondering how nice it would be to kill the owner and about 10 other people and a Paladin walks in and Detects Evil, should this man show up? If he should then go ahead and smite the whole world. Maybe he's LE and lives in an area w/a similar ruler so he has always fit in well.

Of course the better question is, why is the Paladin just running around Detecting Evil everywhere he goes? That was always one of the powers that was open to some of the largest abuse in D&D and I for one am happy to see it gone. If PF has made it so it only produces results on higher level beings cool. I've never had a problem with something of higher level producing a stronger aura due to more personal power. If a level 1 demon from the abyss is on one side of the room and a level 20 demon is across the otehr side of the room, maybe they should both show up due to both being from the abyss, but the L20 should throb and pulse inside your skull with their level of evil.

You should be basing your "who should be smited" from probably using your high charisma to get some details from people and find out that Farmer McGee is suspected of blackmailing his fellow farmers with threats on their children. a bit of leaning on him after produces results. Not "Is anyone in here Evil so I can kill them?"